Today I speak with acclaimed Tuscan food writer and cooking teacher Giulia Scarpaleggia about how food sensitivities impact our identities, health, and well-being. Giulia is the author of six cookbooks, including her latest, Cucina Povera: The Italian Way of Transforming Humble Ingredients into Unforgettable Meals, and she also publishes the newsletter Letters from Tuscany.
https://mindbodyspiritfood.substack.com/p/giulia-scarpaleggia
Giulia describes her recent journey of having to cut dairy out of her diet after a three-year health struggle, which has not been easy as an Italian who loves cheese. While Giulia grew up in Italy (where she still lives) and I grew up in the Midwest here in the US, you’ll hear how we have remarkably similar backgrounds in terms of how we each found our calling in food and also how we each navigated health issues after having our first child (for me, that resulted in having to cut out gluten twelve years ago).
While it’s not easy to cut out a beloved food (whether temporarily or permanently), Giulia and I share how there is also a silver lining, not only in feeling better in our bodies, but also in discovering new ingredients, new perspectives and a renewed connection to ourselves. Giulia shares her tips for going dairy-free, and she also shares some dairy-free Italian recipes, which I’ve linked to below. I’ve also linked to my own favorite dairy-free desserts, all of which just happen be gluten-free.
While these are personal stories, I think many of us have either dealt with a food sensitivity ourselves or know of somebody who has. This is such an inspiring episode, and please forward it along to anybody you know who might be on a similar journey. We’re here for you!
Links:
* Mind, Body, Spirit, FOOD newsletter: https://mindbodyspiritfood.substack.com/
* Find Nicki on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nickisizemore/* Julia’s Newsletter: https://julskitchen.substack.com/
* Find Giulia on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julskitchen/
* My full story with food: https://mindbodyspiritfood.substack.com/p/my-history-with-food-its-complicated
Recipes:
* Giulia’s Potato & Asparagus Tortelli: https://julskitchen.substack.com/p/cook-along-potato-and-asparagus-tortelli
* Castagnaccio (Tuscan chestnut cake): https://en.julskitchen.com/dessert/castagnaccio-chestnut-cake
* Giulia’s Strawberry biancomangiare: https://julskitchen.substack.com/p/strawberry-biancomangiare
* Lemon Olive Oil Cake: https://fromscratchfast.com/lemon-olive-oil-polenta-cake-recipe-gluten-free/
* Orange Olive Oil Cake: https://fromscratchfast.com/orange-olive-oil-cake-recipe-gluten-free/
* Apple Honey Cake: https://fromscratchfast.com/healthy-paleo-gluten-free-apple-cake-recipe/
* Almond Coconut Cake: https://fromscratchfast.com/almond-coconut-cake/
* Carrot Cake (omit the frosting or use coconut whipped cream): https://fromscratchfast.com/healthy-gluten-free-carrot-cake-recipe/
* Vegan Coconut Lime Panna Cotta: https://fromscratchfast.com/coconut-lime-panna-cotta-with-roasted-berries/
how can experiment with vegetables and have a satisfying fulfilling meal even without the cheese so it’s a change of perspective and I think that’s the really the beginning look at what you can have look at what you can enjoy and what you really love and start from there instead of looking at what you are missing welcome to Mind Body Spirit food I’m your host Nikki seore and in this podcast we explore the cultural influences around food and how food connects us and sometimes disconnects us to our minds our bodies Our Spirits the Earth and our communities we also talk about recipes cooking tips and more this is a space that is dedicated to Bringing more presence ease and joy into the process of feeding ourselves let’s dive [Music] in hello my friends welcome back to the podcast today I speak with tuskin food writer and cooking teacher Julia scarpia all about her recent journey of having to cut Dairy out of her diet and what that is meant for her identity her health and her well-being Julia is the author of six cookbooks including her latest cuchina Pua she’s also the publisher of the substack newsletter letters from Tuscany so during this conversation I realized that Julie and I have remarkably similar Journeys not only when it comes to how we both found our passion for food and our careers but also very similar Health Journeys after we had our first child so I had my first child 14 years ago and my journey resulted in me having to cut gluten out of my diet 12 years ago which many of you know this story you can listen to past episodes which I’ll link to in the show notes if you want the full story but for Julia this journey began three years ago after she had her daughter and resulted in her having to cut out Dairy just a couple of months ago so she is still very much in this journey while these stories are very personal to Julia and I think at this point we all probably know somebody who has dealt with or is dealing with a food sensitivity and while I can tell you firsthand it’s hard it can totally suck I’m not going to lie it can also be a really powerful time there is a silver lining not only in rediscovering more Balance and Health in our bodies but also in discovering delicious new ingredients and recipes Julia offers tips for going dairyfree she shares some of her dairyfree Italian recipes she has been exploring which I have linked to in the show notes on that note I’ve also linked to my own very favorite dairyfree desserts which also just happen to be gluten-free I think you’re going to find this episode really inspiring whether or not you’ve had a food sensitivity yourself and please share this episode with any friends or family members who might be experiencing something similar because a simple shift in perspective can make a world of difference as always an easy way that you can support this work is by sharing it with your people or you can rate the podcast on your podcast app you guys know this become a subscriber to the Mind Body Spirit food newsletter and for just a few dollars a month you can become a paid member and as a paid member you get all of the recipes you get bonus content and other fun perks all right let’s dive in well welcome Julia it’s so nice to have you on the show thank you so much I’m so happy to be here and to be able to talk with you almost live almost live yes so I’m going to ask you the first question that I ask all of my guests and that is what is your cultural upbringing and how has that influenced your relationship to food so I’m a taskan born and bred food writer and cooking class instructor and I was born in a very typical traditional Italian family in the 80s so that is also very important because my grandmother was very connected to traditional food she used to be a f she had a big Garden she was eating very seasonal and very traditional food my mom on the other side she was working for the whole day and so she would rely often on frozen meals like very often frozen vegetables she was not the best cook even though now she’s way better than when I was a kid and so she was not passionate about cooking so something that you don’t expect from an italan mother but that was important as well because even though my mom was working every day and coming back home late she was still able to cook something very simple and serve warm food at night for me and my sister and so that was very very important so I learned to feed thanks to my mom I learned the importance of food to make you feel good you know make you feel better thanks to my mom and I learn to cook thanks to my grandmother did your grandmother lived nearby were you influenced by her like did she teach you some of those traditional recipes that she used to make she’s 95 almost 96 and she still lives downstairs to me amazing yeah I live next door to my mom and on the first floor my grandma is on the ground floor so we leave next door basically so I grew up with my grandmother as well and she taught me the traditional taskan recipes the local ones because when I ask her a recipe for pishy for example a p made spaghetti there from Valor about one hour from here she said they are not typical you know so what is typical for her is what is very very local and so something she knew heart basically yeah so very hyper local Cuisine which is so fascinating I grew up in the 80s as well and very similar you know my mom worked full-time and there was a lot of fast food a lot of takeout just out of necessity and it really for me I always had the passion for food and it was really my drive that led me onto this path and it sounds like that might have been the same for you did you love all foods as a kid or were you picky or what was that like I was not very passionate about vegetables even though now it’s my favorite ingredient there were vegetables in the garden no but maybe my mom since she was not PR she’s still not very passionate about vegetables that was not the main core of our meals so I learn to appre had vegetables growing up so I was a very skinny kid until I was five because I had my how do you say the aloid and tonsils so I couldn’t smell the food wow because I was all clogged basically and then when I had my surgery I was five I still remember exactly the day when for the first time I could smell and so taste food I was sitting at my at my grandmother’s table and she had prepared this fried cutlets they’re very typical task so they’re fried and then cooked in tomato sauce and that first bite I was like Wow Grandma this is you know so good the first time and so from that moment on I was really passionate about food amazing and then you grew up did you always know you wanted to become a food writer and cooking teacher or how did that happen no it was not my idea growing up I love food I love cooking but still being a girl from 80s I was in love with working woman the movie and I wanted to be a marketing manager maybe working in a very important firm I don’t know so my university studies were about marketing and communication but then it was not my Capal te I worked for a couple of years and for five years in marketing and communication but then in 2009 I started my food blog and this is when I realized I really wanted to work with food and English because I start translating Direct recipes in English after a couple of months because I had many foreign friends and they were asking me for traditional taskan recipes my first Focus was everything that was not traditional because that was my free Corner in the kitchen cooking something that was not traditional but after that I start researching the ccan cuisine and basically I fell in love with our food tradition and that’s where everything began basically yeah first of all my story and your story are remarkably the same I was an anthropology major in college but I went into marketing and PR after college and worked for several years and it taught me exactly what I didn’t want to do and eventually I was living in New York City at that time and quit my job and went to culinary school I didn’t have much of a culinary Heritage myself growing up in the Midwest of the United States but I love with so many guests that I talk to who are Cooks you had to experiment on your own before you came back to your roots and I find that that theme comes up over and over again we almost have to move Beyond ourselves and then we kind of can then see the value and what is exct in front of us and where we are now one thing I want to talk about today you had a recent newsletter and you explain this journey that sounds like it’s a recent journey of you having to cut glute or cut gluten that’s my journey cut Da Cut Dairy out of your diet as an Italian who loves cheese so can you just explain how that went down what was that dur like so basically after I gave birth to my daughter three years ago I was not seing 100% so of course it takes time to recover it takes time to you know seal your body again but there was something wrong so I couldn’t put a finger what it was and I saw many doctors tried many therapies but there was something that was not working and So eventually I found a nutritionist and she told me to do a DNA test on intolerances because she said I’m pretty sure it might be gluten at the beginning she thought this could be gluten and I was scared as you can understand but you know I had one month while I was waiting for the results and I was always you know telling me okay I can do even without gluten you know can try experimenting with gluten-free recipes and I was almost convinced it was gluten and so when I had the result it was no you can eat gluten it’s Dairy that came as a surprise because really I was not thinking about Dairy you know this time of course eating butter and cream especially was very heavy for me but I didn’t connect all the dots until that very moment so there are many things behind these connected to my liver to other things but one of the you know clearest thing that was to do for me was abandon Dairy so it’s not was not just lactose but Dairy all together I want to pause just because you did mention something in your newsletter and I just want to say that here that you know and I want to emphasize this is the Mind Body Spirit food Community this is our belief that we’re not looking for medical advice so really within this platform I just want to emphasize for all of you listeners out there that we respect everybody’s choices when it comes to the foods they eat and to their own personal health Journey so I just want to throw that out there because yeah sometimes people just want to give you all the advice and I know what that feels like in fact again our Journeys are so similar because it was after I had my first daughter who was now 14 it was two years I got really sick this went on for a year and a half and I finally had a doctor who helped me realize that gluten was contributing to a lot of my health issues and it was a complete shock for me I was working the time as a food stylist I was working as a recipe developer and a writer and I had strongly identified myself as somebody who ate everything and this came actually you know for those listeners out there they know my story I had a history of disordered eating in my late teens and early 20s so having to cut something out of my diet felt appalling and then I also didn’t want to be the person at the restaurant like being like I can’t eat gluten I felt very shamed I felt very shameful about that I mean we live in a very different time now I will say but I can’t imagine it was easy how has this affected your identity as a cook and as a human well you just describe exactly exactly word to word what I was feeling because I used to go at the bar at a cafe in the morning and ask for espresso macchiato so like espresso with a shot of milk and now I cannot drink coffee so I have to ask for Oro which is barley coffee with soy milk and every time I’m sorry and I go there with my clients for the cooking classes so I start okay two cappuccinos one coffee one espresso and then I’m sorry always like I’m sorry I need with soy milk yeah I’m still at the I’m sorry phase and also at restaurants I’m not used to that uh because it’s very recent so I’m just scanning the menu trying to find something is natural da free but again I’m a food writer so I develop recipes I write cookbooks and I teach cooking classes and I’ve always been very proud to be you know eating everything during cooking classes because I genuinely love food and I love what my students cook and I love to share the food but then I had to start saying I’m sorry I just discovered I’m L intolerant but I have to say that working with International students it’s easier than working with Italians because International students especially Americans in my studio they all understand and so they say oh like I’ve been there or I have a friend and so they are completely okay with me skipping one or two courses because there’s cheese while my Italian friends are like I’m sorry I couldn’t give up cheese oh no no you know what I’m lacked in tant but I’m still eating cheese or one of the cheese vendors at the market it was so fun because he said oh I’m sorry I hope it will pass I was like I hope so but no and even my mom my mom and my husband we are all lact in to so probably something for me in my DNA so Italians are there’s a high percentage of people are lactose intolerant in Italy and my mom said at the doctor okay I’ll just you know remove all the day but can I have milk in the morning because she she love she used to love her milk and coffee in the morning now she loves old milk like in you know one month she managed to change her habits so I’m very proud of her amazing so that was easier with you know students from abroad than with my Italian friends but uh first of all I’m feeling so much better and this is G me all the motivation all the inspiration to keep you know on on this SP and that’s the the most important thing I do feel better you just said it because for me it was like a massive Health turnaround and it wasn’t just because of the gluten the gluten was a contributing factor and a large one but it was a major one and it made it so much easier and in fact I found that cutting out gluten ended up being a very imp EMP powering moment in my life and a moment where IID always assumed Health First of all and I’d always assumed that doctors would have the answers for me and I did work with the doctor and she’s the one who did suggest cutting out gluten but once I realized that it turned into this empowering situation for me it wasn’t about a medication for that specific symptom it was something I could control and I could manage and I had a direct say in my health for the first time and I started to feel so much better and there’s nothing that will motivate if you’re feeling as worse as I’m sure both of us did but prior it’s actually not that hard to make the change it’s more of an emotional attachment than it is you know the physical stuff it’s like oh my gosh yay yeah aside from starting to feel better has there been any other surprises that have come with cutting out Dairy for you it is exactly what you’re saying it came after 3 years when I was ignoring myself and my body so just to put this in perspective I gave birth at the end of the first lockdown of covid so it was basically the first year of my daughter we were in isolation and every symptom I had I was basically ignoring it because it was you know during Co you don’t want to go to doctors and the hospital she was very little then she start going to daycare and so I had more time but this is when my job started after two years of break of covid so the new cooking classes so I was super busy we were supervia work with my husband and it was a very intense moment for two years and I was ignoring all the symptoms because you had to work because disas no after two years of break you have to work and if you have some free time you spend it with your daughter but after two years like these of cooking glasses I was so tired and like I was lacking completely energy I was not talk used when I was working and I knew there was something wrong and as you say da intolerance is just you know contributing to a major like situation but was a big part of it and when you start addressing it and it’s like you start solving a puzzle and so I felt very empowered to start working on my Heth and I think this is also it could be an inspiration for my daughter as well because I’m not controlling food because no I want to be skinny I’m controlling food because I want to feel good because I want to be present for her I want to have energy to play with her so that was the first step to you know to solve a a bigger puzzle that I’m still working on but the very first effective piece of the puzzle and so it was really important yeah yeah and what I found at least in my experience I mean we are very fortunate having to go through a journey like this because you and I love to cook and so what ended up happening is that yes there was something that had to leave my diet but what I found was then this door opened to a ton of new ingredients that I got to then play with that I had never considered playing with so it almost was like way more of the experimentation and stuff coming in than I felt that was going out how has that been for you have you started experimenting with dairyfree options at the moment researching traditional recipes that don’t have dairy or yes of course milk soy milk I was already drinking that in the morning so that’s still you know part of my breakfast routine is oat milk and chicoi coffee because I cannot have coffee also and then for example the other day I was working on stuffed pasta and my first idea when I think about stuffed pasta is rotta that was one of my favorite ingredients I would use ricotta everywhere but then I start thinking what do we use in taskan to Stu pasta besides Ricotta and so yeah there’s meat but there are also potatoes from Mello an area of mountains of Florence and so I start thinking maybe I can use potatoes instead of ricotta when I want to mix them with vegetables and so my Ricotta and asparagus tortelli became potatoes and asparagus tortelli so with a little bit of know substitutions and adjustments and they’re just as good they’re different I was not searching for for you know the same taste the same texture or search it for something different that could still work that could be seasonal that could be traditional because I want to incorporate these recipes into my cooking classes and we made that the tortell doing a cooking class and everyone loved them and I think it’s a nice you know a nice idea to try to find something is already working and try to adjust them into a new recipe so now potatoes are my go-to ingredients for a feeling for pasta well that’s just brilliant and that sounds so delicious it reminds I besides a perogi I’ve never had a stuffed pasta with potatoes and I just can imagine that creaminess on the inside that suppleness and how delicious that would be what are some other Italian recipes that traditional let’s start with traditional Italian recipes that are just naturally dairy free I want to talk about desserts because that’s probably the most difficult aspect for meat and yes yeah right now I’m just ready to bake a castano castan is Chesnut flour cake and castan is naturally glutenfree and dairy free because it’s vegan and gluten-free and without sugar so it’s a a very ancient recipe that is at the same time extremely modern because it’s good for almost everyone so it’s Tess of flour water raisins pine nuts and walnuts making that so breakfast to have because it last for days when your counter and so that’s something that belongs to our tradition and you don’t need Dairy for that another the set that I really love is from Sicily and it’s biano Manar biano mjar is like the blank M from France and like white food and it’s ah right almond milk almond milk is not milk cow milk it’s almond milk that is sticken with corn starch so again it’s vegan and free and so it’s also dairy free and it’s like similar to a panacota but it’s even lighter because it’s made with almond milk and corn starch and then usually it stopped with some cinnamon or pistachos or can orange peel so it’s very typical of Sicily and they also use the same technique of using the corn starch to thicken watermelon juice lemon juice and so they have this kind of jelly puddings they are vegan and Gren free and that is a great option especially for the summer because they’re very refreshing they’re very refreshing and light and you don’t need daily for that so these are two examples that you know come to my mind that are great because they are dfree and you don’t have to change anything there they’re already working without da and like you said for me exactly it was the desserts because I feel like within Savory cooking it’s yeah much easier to make a substitute for the dairy to swap out the butter for olive oil or coconut oil or something but in the baked goods we rely so much on the butter on the gluten structure and to start this journey for anybody who might be starting a journey where they have to cut something out of their diet to look for those recipes that already exist traditionally and that are just happen to be made without these ingredients and I think that’s a wonderful stepping off point to then start to get more creative because you’re like oh okay the chestnut flower like this is delicious I bet this could also work in you know XY Z yeah yeah yeah are there any substitutes that you have been using I know you mentioned soy milk obviously like the milk Alternatives which are so easy to find yeah what about other substitutes for for instance for butter or substitute for cheeses you mentioned the potato instead of Rota I think that’s a brilliant substitution is there anything else I had to mention oniv of course because here in tasani we worship olive oil and so for me it was very easy to cook everything with olive oil including rotto so my family Roto has always started with onion and olive oil my but it’s not the traditional recipe but this is how we’ve been making this in my family even cakes I love to bake with extra virgin olive oil so one of my favorite cakes is a cake with extra virgin olive oil and apples so that was an easy substitution for me for example I love to Bak vegetables with bread crumbs on top like slices of eggplants Peppers zucchini and I used to mix cheese in the breadcrumbs so parmesano Pino what is the role of cheese in this case it’s the mommy flavor so it’s the intense flavor and so I try to substitute that using kers because kers are rich inami and so I blend my bread crumbs with capers and herbs and lemon dust so basically I add flavor to my bread crumbs using other ingredients so and it works it’s delicious especially with zucchini I try with zucchini for the moment and I love that I think I can use also sundried Tomatoes I will experiment with that too but using Capers a little bit not too much Capers or not too many Capers a little bit of Capers blended with the bread Crums you don’t taste the Capers but you taste that you know death of flavor that was missing without the cheese it was that Umami flavor so you wrote it down and said okay what does the dairy in this recipe what is the purpose and you know I think this is just good cooking instruction for all of our listeners like the cheese and the ravioli what is the purpose that filling so what has a similar texture or what has a similar the Umami flavor that the parmesan and peino provided in the breadcrumbs what a brilliant way to start thinking about substitutions yeah and I’m just at the beginning because it’s like two months three months that I’m working with these New Perspectives so I still don’t know how to substitute my mozzarella or my I had to work on that I will let you know course well and I feel like you know at least for me the traditional bread at the start of the meal I just had to get creative and think about other ways to satisfy that craving for something in a different form and so you know for me that often looks like chickpea fries panise or something like that and it’s like okay so sometimes it’s just a flavor you want to swap out sometimes it’s a texture you want to swap out but sometimes it’s a feeling it’s a sense of comfort that a specific food can provide and to look into that what am I seeking here and I think these are all important tips do you have any other tips for for people who might be realizing for themselves or for their children I have I have several friends whose children are having a hard time with dairy any other tips for cutting out Dairy specifically I think what is really working for me is a change of perspective so don’t look at what you cannot have look at what you can have look at what you can enjoy so this is something I realized during covid again when I had to cook with ingredients from my pantry and so that was a creative approach because okay let me see what I can cook today with what I have already in the country so I think it’s the same of course I will be missing Baka I will be missing mozzarella but what can I create delicious and satisfying with I don’t know vegetables that is my favorite ingredient how can experiment with vegetable and have a satisfying fulfilling meal even without the cheese so it’s a change of perspective and I think that’s the really the beginning look at what you can have look at what you can enjoy and what you really love and start from there instead of looking at what you are missing it’s like that abundance versus scarcity perspective if we are only paying attention to what we can’t have this goes you know for life in general we will be miserable and if we can simplify and see all that we already have even if it’s the simplest things you know for me like sometimes it’s just like I’m like you vegetables are my favorite things to cook I find so much joy in the color and in the textures and it’s like okay if I’m feeling down about not being able to eat the pizza I’m going to craft the best damn salad or the best baked vegetable situation yes that exactly exactly well I feel like this has been so helpful and so empowering for people to hear that these Journey in our life they happen and while they are hard undoubtedly they can also be the doorway to us finding our own health to opening ourselves up to new flavors and experiences and to New Perspectives as you said yeah yeah exactly Julia where can people find your beautiful delicious work so I have a newsletter substock and it’s letters from Tuscani and if you read Italian I have also the same newsletter in Italian then I’m on Instagram Jules kit my blog Jules kit.com that is again in Italian and in English and my latest cookbook is Kush that is available worldwide and I will link to all of these things but before we leave I have one last question for you this is how I end all my episodes and that is it is your last meal on Earth what would it be my answer was eggplant parmesana I have to change it well I love that okay we’ll say the eggplant parmesana because it’s your last meal but if you had to choose something that was dairy free what would you choose peino this is the simplest dish so spaghetti with extra virin olive oil garlic and chili pepper and a little bit of fresh parsley if you can make them correctly they’re a great dish and super simple so I really love that wonderful well thank you so much I really appreciate you sharing your story thank you so much it has been a pleasure thank you so much for listening if this work resonates with you in any way you can support it by leaving a review or comment or sharing it with friends also you can sign up for the newsletter Mind Body Spirit food and by becoming a paid member for just $5 a month you help fund this entire project thank you so much to all of you who are already subscribed especially to those paid subscribers this work could not happen without you I’m Nikki seore and as always remember to nourish yourself with intention and [Music] love e e e e e