Tell me if I’m totally off base here, I’ve always been my own biggest critic.
I got a starter from a friend not too long ago and have been fiddling with some simple recipes to get a feel for it. I’m using this recipe: http://3.139.235.131/2024/03/28/simple-sourdough-for-lazy-people/
This is my third load and I think it’s turning out on the good end of fine but the crumb is consistently really small and a little gummy. Not so much that it’s unpleasant to eat and the taste is delightful, but I’m not sure if I need to be bulk fermenting longer.
It’s pretty consistently taken ~12 hours to double in my cold ass kitchen. I’m in no rush to pump loaves out so I’m happy to wait longer on fermentation.
Any advice would be appreciated!
by Ch1ckenW4ffles
24 Comments
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Are you tracking the dough temperature? This chart is handy
https://preview.redd.it/1xr2cxdb1ble1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1bcc4a5fe9ceae25ba40f9f707e9ddcc0138f4f
Temperature is the culprit. Yeast get sluggish as temperatures drop. Use warm water (85°F/30°C) for your autolyse, and keep the dough in your oven with the light on from autolyse until you shape it. That will provide just enough warmth to keep things going.
This looks over fermented to me??
After bulk, push it a little with your finger. If it goes right back, it’s over fermented. It should leave a bit of a dent. When it bounces right back, there is too much gas, and when you score it, it’ll deflate like a balloon and get real dense.
Consider bulk ferment in oven, NOT turned on of course. It’s a closed environment and a more consistent temperature than your cold kitchen. Also, the hydration for this recipe is only 59% (340g water/567g flour) and should be 72% x 75% (or in a range of 408g – 425g). I follow the technique from this blog for various sourdough recipes and it works like a charm https://alexandracooks.com/2017/10/24/artisan-sourdough-made-simple-sourdough-bread-demystified-a-beginners-guide-to-sourdough-baking/#overview
Your bread looks like his bread on the outside.
The crumb is VERY typical of low hydration dough. The lower the hydration, the longer it takes to ferment.
Move on to the tartine recipe and process. Go watch the NYTcooking channel video with Claire Saffitz making sourdough on their channel.
When in doubt, follow the method of a professional bakery, not a food blogger. He doesn’t explain anything to you in terms of fermentation or what to look for to end one stage and move on to the next. Very typical for a blog. Tartine Bread is their book, it’s worth buying. But Claire goes through the recipe and their recipe is also on their site.
If your starter is too weak to double in less than 5 hours after a 1:1:1 feeding, go to the strengthening your starter page on the sourdough journey website.
When a recipe consistently gives you results that you don’t like, it’s your job to find a better recipe.
Could it be that your starter hasn’t really taken off yet? I struggled for a couple months. It’s finally extremely active and my Tartine method bread is so much better. I agree that it’s under fermented but it could also be your starter.
Purposely over proofing and watching the changes is something every beginner should do. I thought I overproofed and made my best loaf to date as a beginner and then purposely overproofed dough to see the differences. It’s hard to fully know by descriptions until you experience it.
Then make it into focaccia
https://preview.redd.it/8hlvmycr9ble1.jpeg?width=972&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0e92a9f0d1a0ad83eaf46349fedbdeb57de056f
Do bulk ferment in the oven (turned off of course) with the light on. This is the only thing that works for me during the winter!
My kitchen is cold during the winter and at times needs a 16 hour counter ferment. That dough needs to be doubling more than it is. Don’t touch it and leave it until it’s big!! It won’t go bad just let it do it’s thing
Is your dough doubling by the end of your bulk fermentation?
his recipe is a lower hydration dough than I usually work with, but do you like this baker? Do you like the high salt level in his recipe? If so you could increase your water to 63% (357g) and see if you like that better. Or 65% (369g) and see if the shape and process still work for the flour you use.
Or you can move on to a 70% hydration recipe that has more work involved. These have videos below the recipe, so you can watch the process and see if they are of interest to you:
– Grant Bakes: https://grantbakes.com/good-sourdough-bread/
– Chain Baker: https://www.chainbaker.com/no-knead-sourdough/
I really have a hard time with timelines in the winter. Ready for warmer outside temps and perfect loaves!
Switching to Sourdough Journeys Bulk-o-Matic process (dough rise % for temp + cold retard) is a much easier process compared to same day bakes. I haven’t biffed a single loaf since I started using it
https://preview.redd.it/9bux1fekgble1.jpeg?width=2688&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=524ce7b51199d9d1ebeaf5dc21d1b0432cea3f3b
Hi. There are several things going on here. Flour type, hydration level, and starter vigour. Culture and dough temperature Without that information, it is very difficult to give you informed critique.
I am unable to connect to the recipe it is apparently an open unsecure site.
Going by the appearance alone, I suspect you are using a low protein flour, your starter is not yet mature enough and your hydration I’d too high baking your dough too difficult to handle and effectively develop with good stong gluten. The crumb is of tight small cells that appear to have thin membranes, and the dough appears wet or doughy centrally. There appears to be squashed larger voids mainly just below the crust. Whether these are coalesced cells or entrapped air from over vigorous development remains to be seen. The loaf appears to be undercooked, too.
It is good practice to develop your starter until it is at least doubling in under four hours after a 1:1:1 feed atva culture temperature of 75 to 80 °F.
Ingredients:
100% = bulk added flour content.
Added water = 65% bulk flour
Starter = 20% bulk flour
Salt = 2% bulk flour
Total hydration = Total water divided by total flour.
Use bread flour with or without wholevgrain flours. Adding these will change the water hydration factors.
Follow a consistent method. Pre hydrate and autolyse the flour and water . This starts the gluten formation. Add and mix in levain, knead and fermentolyse dough 1 hour. Mixing is the start of bulk ferment. Add salt, fold in, and commence stretch and folds. 4 or 5 sets ½ hour appart. Allow dough to bulk ferment until approx 50% rise dough temperature and cold ferment dependent. Curtail bf and shape, place dough in banetton and place in cold retard. 36 to 40°F.
Hope that this makes sense
Happy baking
This sub has me absolutely fucking terrified to try and making sourdough. I’m not gonna lie.
The breads either look amazing or like this . All due respect.
This is my favorite recipe, fool proof! She also has a TikTok which can be helpful. https://lizasfarmhouse.com/fresh-baked-sourdough-bread/
Honestly buy a cambro container and do bulk ferment in that you will easily be able to tell it’s done ferment when it grows about 80% or doubles.
This made me realise that I have been considering bulk fermentation to start from the last time I touch the dough XD no wonder it i had the timings screwed
Put it in oven off with the light on if you want it to bulk faster or get a seed mat. I just leave mine on counter over night with my heat on 68 degrees and need like 12-14 hours
I had the same issue, what helped me was I purposely overfermented one loaf and checked on it frequently so I would in the future know what a properly fermented loaf looks like. That loaf sucked, but then my next one was this (with chocolate chips)
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Try proofing in the oven with the light on. I have to prop my door open but my differential is not much. You might not need to
In general, I think the recipe you are using is going to give you a pretty dense loaf. It is a lazy recipe for a quick loaf.
Some things to reconsider here are the amount of hydration and the amount of starter you are using. the recipe linked puts you at 64% hydration. Your loaf here doesn’t look under proofed. It would be wet and gooey looking, if that were the case. this just looks dense.
Try this recipe and see if it makes a difference:
**Hydration:** 68%
**Flour:** 400g
**Water:** 250g
**Starter:** 110g
**Salt:** 8g
It uses a bit more water and a bit higher ratio of starter than the recipe your using now. Do your stretch and folds at the start of your bulk ferment over the first 3 hours, then let it rest another 6 to 10 depending on temps.
The link tells you to put your loaf in a cold oven. that’s why your not getting a big oven spring. Honestly, i personally think this is awful advice. Pre-heat your oven and dutch oven for at least 45 minutes at 500F. This can be done towards the end of your after-shape proofing. Score the top of your loaf **off center!** and at a 45 degree angle nice and deep (your loaf is tearing because it doesn’t have a good score to grow.) Bake covered for 15-20 minutes at 500F. Then, turn your oven down to 450F, uncover the loaf, bake 20-35 more minutes at until you get a nice, dark crust.
I use this link to play with different hydration percentages:
[https://sourdoughcalculator.info/](https://sourdoughcalculator.info/)
I encourage you to keep it below 70% hydration until you get the hang of it. but adjusting your recipe and your baking will make a difference here.