Two grand crus – two absolutely forgettable wines. Almost no primary flavours on each, and no finish. Drinking sparkling water would have been more interesting.
This is pretty much my experience with all sorts of burgundy, occasionally there are some nice smooth floral primary notes – but really considering how much of a gamble it is to get a good one and considering how much less of a gamble it is to get an amazing Barolo at a third of the price, or a superb northern Rhone at a fifth of the price…why bother?
Both of these wines are from good vintages and are well reviewed, from good producers. Chablis was chilled at around 10 degrees and the Charmes served at around 13.
Drank with langoustines (Chablis) and without food (Charmes).
by Richyroo52
15 Comments
Good, there’s more to us then 👌🏻
In essence, I don’t think it’s unpopular in the grand scheme. Burgundy is like chasing a dragon. The chase is worth it *when* you catch it, but truth be told it can be really be few and far between.
In actuality, you’ll find a lot more Pinot hits than misses in the US or Germany or say, South Africa. I can’t remember the last time I had a bad experience with a 60$ Pinot from either of the mentioned. But Burgundy? Just the other day.
There is also the fact that you can buy several cases of great wine for the price of just these two bottles. It’s a huge failure of the industry that we continue to lionize the region above all else given the truly abysmal qpr.
If you enjoy barolos and rhones better than burgundy is simply because of your palate, I wager you enjoy richness and fruit forward sweetness and dislike earthy, mushroomy profiles, IMHO. That’s the good thing about acknowledging your profile, you now know where to spend your coin.
Everyone who drinks Burgundy knows the hits are way less than the misses. But the hits are truly magical, which adds to the intrigue. I definitely wouldn’t recommend it to the average drinker but for those who are experienced and are chasing something special, it serves its purpose.
What was the vintage of the Chablis?
I would have not opened the 2018 Charmes for another 5 years. I can imagine it’s in a closed phase currently. 2018 is a warm and classical vintage.
Bro yeah right, those are two excellent producers. If it’s not your thing it’s not your thing, but I can’t imagine those wines sucking. Is there a lot of QPR? Probably not— you don’t drink grand cru Burg to save money. But this is a ridiculous post.
I do admit 2018 was a weird year but H.Lignier charmes is a baller bottle. Same with the Michel.
First of all, 18s are mostly not drinking well right now. Lignier made some of the very best wines in 18, but the only 18s grand crus drinking very well right now from his portfolio are strangely the 18 CDLR and MSD 1er Vv. I would never have opened the 18 charmes now, it probably needs at least 3-5 and more likely 5-10 years of cellar time to show well. I’m not surprised it wasn’t drinking well.
I have generally not had good luck with Louis Michel’s grand crus. It’s usually a producer used for QPR because his 1ers from excellent vintages like 14, 17 and 20 were 20-30 back in the day and maybe 40-50 now.
I won’t argue that Burgundy is expensive, because it certainly is, and probably not the best place to look for QPR, although some relative values can be found (see my Chassagne rouge, fornerol, and dureuil janthial posts). That said, I think modern burgundy is hardly the minefield it used to be. In the 80s and 90s there were actually a lot of shit wines being made in burgundy, and quite a few bad vintages. Since 2000, there have been two bad vintagss (04/11) and some mid vintages (03/06). Every other vintage has been at least good.
I’ve generally had great success (>90%) opening Burgundy. All my notes are on my instagram (www.instagram.com/mchangwine) and you can see there are relatively few misses from Burgundy. I have far more misses from Napa, bdx, and the northern rhone. Champagne and Sauternes are the most consistent wines, though. Yes I’m carefully selecting wines for when they should be open and pretty much only drink top producers, but producer is the most important thing for Burgundy.
Yeah echoing others: when burgundy hits, it fucking HITS. And you will chase that dragon for the rest of your life. I still remember feeling the same way until I had a bottle of 2012 Roumier Les Cras one night in Florence. The sommelier poured himself a full glass without asking it was so good.
I used to be on your wavelength but am solidly no longer. You need to drink more burgs I’m afraid. Some of my favorite red and white burgundies have been around $70. Many that I’ve spent $200+ on tasted exactly like those $70 bottles. They’re all good, but you don’t always have to have the most highly sought after vineyard or cru from each producer. Sometimes their flagship isn’t the best they made that year.
I find the higher tier Burgs underwhelming to be honest, I enjoy them but QPR is just abysmal, I do however enjoy some of the lower end offerings such as Jadot.
I’ve been ITB for a long time and have tasted and sold a lot of Burgundy over the years. Burgundy, in general, is overpriced and disappointing. It is just a fact. Rich guys can have it.
You can drink like a king under $50 in Oregon and California if you know where to look. I picked up some 2012 Ayres and 2012 FEL Savoy Vyd Pinot last month from Winebid and they were singing. Paid less than $30 each. Fred Scherrer sells his Russian River Pinot Noir as futures for an absolute song, and the wine is off the charts. You’ve got lots of other options, stateside at least.
*trite opinion
Not all grand crus are created equal, especially the chambertin cru’s.
The famous quote is : all the chambertin grand crus are chambertin, but some are more chambertin than others.
Personally the only 2 that I feel are worth it are beze and chambertin itself.
Beyond that I’d be buying the 1er’s adjacent to them before the rest of the GC’s
The other caveat is I would figure out what winemaking styles you gravitate to in burgundy. Beyond the myriad of vineyards, there are a myriad of winemaking techniques from producer to producer. Those factors are a huge part in what you’re looking for in burgundy.
To boot, drinking only GC is limiting. There’s tons of cost friendly burgundy out there that is quite delicious.
To be fair I’ve always found Louis Michel wines to be pretty boring