I’m fairly new to sourdough bread making. I shouldn’t say that coz I’ve never been able to make a single boule. Every time I try to make it, post bulk fermentation, my dough looks like this picture. Whereas in all the videos I’ve seen, by this stage their dough takes shape and is sturdy enough. The first two times, I figured that the problem was with my flour being 2.5 years old. So I bought a new pack of King Arthur bread flour. The above picture is using the new flour.
Here are the measurements and steps:
Bread flour: 450gm
Whole wheat flour: 50gm
Water 350gm(70%)
Salt: 10gm (2%)
Starter: 100gm (20%)
Process:
– the night before, take the starter out of the fridge and feed it 1:2:2 ratio. Next step is after the starter has doubled and is bubbling.
– autolyse flour and water for 1hr
– add starter and mixed it in Kitchen aid stand mixer
– After 20 minutes add salt and knead in KA stand mixer for 5-6 minutes.
– Cover it and let it sit in the oven for about 10 hours coz it was 55F (13C) day.
It increased about 2.5 times at the end of the day but as you can see in the picture it was a sticky goop. No matter how much I fold it, it falls flat. The outside is sticky and not workable at all. Shaping was almost impossible. What am I doing wrong here?
My next attempt would be to ditch the kitchen aid and go with the regular stretch and fold technique. But in the middle of a working day, I want to avoid going back to the kitchen every 30 minutes for a stretch and fold.
Any help is appreciated!
by super_doge66
29 Comments
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When I first started I followed this recipe and got great results, I’ve now started adding more stretch and folds and experimenting but this basic recipe always produced great loaves https://thrilledfoodie.com/beginner-overnight-sourdough-bread/
That is so frustrating. It increased 2.5 times? It sounds like it might have been way overproofed. I go for an 80% rise, about 6 hours. if your oven was on the warmer side, it might take less time. If you are bulk fermenting it in a straight-sided container that you can see through, start monitoring the rise after a couple hours.
If it grew by 2.5 times, you might have an over fermented dough.
An over fermented dough develops acids in it that destroys the gluten. With the gluten destroyed you end up with a dough that looks and acts like that.
Bulk fermentation was not easy for me for many bakes when I started. I still over ferment from time to time.
One thing that helped me a lot with bulk fermentation was using a an aliquot jar and a small sample of dough. Search for that in this sub. There is a lot of good info on how to use one.
10 hours BF in oven is too long, if you put it in room temp 55F for 10 hours it would make more sense
It seems over fermented. I saw a comment the other day that said it looks like that when it’s over fermented because it’s basically turning into starter again lol. Then it kinda clicked for me.
If you turn the lights on in the oven it will warm it up a touch, also I have seen folks place the bowl on a heating pad.
I’m not an expert by any means, but I was using a similar recipe and found that decreasing the amount of water helped me significantly, even with higher protein flours.
I think that the ambient humidity where you live has a fairly meaningful impact on the behaviors of the dough.
I use between 300-325G water per 500G flour, depending on the protein content.
ETA: I also went overboard on fermentation times initially, temp the dough 30 minutes after your last S&F, and use that to base your BF time. Your dough may be warmer than you think.
When you say it was a 55F day, do you mean the outside temp? Your house temp?
Ignore all temps aside from the temp of your dough after you do stretch and folds (or knead in mixer if you chose to keep going that route). The charts for time to BF are based on dough temp.
overfermented looking which is ok because you can make focaccia! you should aim for a 50-70% rise, bunch of bubbles on the bottom and sides abd so it comes off the side easily(small bubbles on the top) and jiggly!. it’s such a learning journey. good luck!
what is your mix by weight? Many recipes will be at 80% hydration. I’ve never had luck about 70. Also you’ll need to learn your specific flower. It is okay to add flower to the bench while you shape if its too sticky. The shaping method can help a lot too. I found that in the bowel I’m letting it proof in I can fold, with wet hands, to help tighten it up. Usually do that about 3-4 times over the first couple hours.
Two Ideas:
you overstretched it with the kitchen aid (only applies if it looked like this before bulk Fermentation)
It is over fermented…I realised:
if ppl ferment it over night they put it in the fridge. It’s cold (3°C) therefore the fermentation process is very slow.
If you let it ferment outside of the fridge it’s a way smaller time window, like 3 hours.
Tbh. I am not an expert, right now I’m making my 6th bread but I feel deeeeeep into the sourdough rabbit hole.
I used the sourdough calculator on your hydration & it actually comes out to 73%, I don’t know that that would make much of a difference though, especially considering you use some wheat flour which I’ve found needs a little more water than bread flour. When I put in 500g of flour this is what it calculates to. I would do exactly as you said & skip the mixer next time, you don’t have to do stretch & folds the entire time! Just every 30 mins for 2 hours. Also, did you have the light on or anything when it was in the oven? It may just be over proofed.
https://preview.redd.it/x63cph6ydj2f1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81c44dc0d16bf2bef675e57e414d7ddc6130c827
Way overproofed. It should rise 30-40%. Go with lower hydration for your first bread experiments
Overproofed. Kitchen Aid is fine but it will raise your dough temp. Then 10 hours in the oven and 2.5 times rise is way too much.
Check your dough temp after mixing. Look up the aliquot method.
Forget about time and just work on learning how to read your dough, the aliquot method is really good at that.
It’s your floured surface. That goopy mass looks like it has enough strength to be shaped if you had a bench knife and a lot of flour on your shaping surface. It honestly looks like it would end up delicious.
Focaccia time again
I am pretty aggravated too. I think it gets better and more workable the more stretch and folds you do. I hate working with sticky dough, coming from perfecting my pizza dough. I do more frequent stretch and folds and when I shape I probably use more flour than I should but at least I don’t get as pissed off. This is supposed to be Zen and fun, and right now, it definitely isn’t fun.
You could try a lower hydration to start. Reduce it my 25g and see if that makes a difference for you. Otherwise, looks like you have great focaccia dough!
I was having mixed results for about 5 years and then recently I started autolyze (everything but the starter) over night when pull out the starter from the fridge then in the AM feed my starter. Then once it is active incorporate into my autolyse. Then stretch & fold every 30 minutes for 3 hours, proof for 2 hours, shape, proof for an hour in banneton then into the fridge over night.
I have found the autolyze overnight really helps with the structure of the bread.
2.5x times is what I usually wait for my dough to rise before shaping, what your problem is (imho) that you didn’t do coil and folds to keep gluten strengths and fermentation in sync. Your gluten lost all its strength after 10h proof and that’s why your final product “failed”.
Try introducing 1h separated C&F, at least in the first couple of hours.
Hope this helps.
Throw it in a loaf pan and bake it!
Time is the often missed element. You need to pay attention during the rise to hit the sweat spot, after 3-4 times you will learn how your setup works.
Ignore the click-baity title, but if you follow this guy’s instructions step for step you will make good bread. The only caveat I’d add is if you aren’t baking all the time, you don’t need to feed your starter every day. I keep mine in the fridge and only feed it when I’m going to bake. It usually only takes 2-3 feedings to bring it back. Also you can halve his recipe for one boule instead of two. But seriously, even after 5 years of baking I still refer back to this video constantly.
https://youtu.be/BJEHsvW2J6M?si=kiBv-hmzwh0nmf4c
Beginner, trust me: 150 g starter. 500 g flour. 300 g water. 25 g olive oil. 10 g salt. 1. Mix starter, oil and water. Add flour and salt. Mux well and let rest for 30-60 min. 2. Stretch and fold/coil four times 30-45 min inetrvalls. 3. Bulk fermentation until double in size or until passes poke,- and jiggle-test.. 4. Pre-shape and rst for 30-60 min. 5. Final shape. 6. Cold- ferment over night. 7. Bake in preheated dutch oven. Add ice cube. 20 min with lid. Finish without lid.
https://preview.redd.it/ur9xr5hbsj2f1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c780b7bbd7a1b0bd5ac768f835bb79fda78e7026
Made these last night my dough looked a bit like yours. They came out ok just not really sour.
Mix it withe kitchen aid, do some stretch and fold, pop it in the fridge until it gains structure and easier to handle. It can take anywhere from 24-48 hours.
Yeah kitchen aid may affect dough as it produces heat when mixing x
Have a look at my no nead sourdough recipe try it x