2 paths to reach the same goal. What are the actual facts on becoming a good Chef?!
2 paths to reach the same goal. What are the actual facts on becoming a good Chef?!
by tapthisbong
39 Comments
TropicalOrca
I feel like more award winning chefs went to culinary school, but most chefs didn’t. That’s what ive noticed in the industry.
Sea_Jackfruit_4582
Have the pride of someone willing to pay to learn this craft but have the humility of someone who has no other choice but to clean up after others
mayormaynotbelurking
Neither is foolproof. There are culinary school folk who crumble under the pressure of the line, and there are old dishies who can’t scale a recipe to save their lives.
VikingPower81
Norway, Sweden, Denmark all countries where culinary school is in high school, and extends with a 2 year apprenticeship are the countries whos been dominating Bocuse d’Or for 40 years.
Culinary school taught me a great deal about nutrition, chemistry, leadership, math and how to do the back end of cooking(ordering, menu development, food cost, etc)
cleptocurrently
Do both. They are not mutually exclusive.
3-goats-in-a-coat
There is a lot to learn in school. Learn it, then work from the bottom up. They both have their benefits
Top_Potential1074
I really hate this conversation. There have been great chefs that went to school. There have been great chefs that didn’t. This industry is hard enough without us diminishing others for their career path.
Bladrak01
I went to culinary school after 8 years in the field. I did it to learn the theory behind the practical knowledge I already had.
StandardZebra1337
I agree with most people about doing both. Never think that you are above hopping in dish and grinding when it’s needed. Any good chef should be willing to do any of the jobs their staff do.
ItWasAcid_IHope
I read the second line as “But you’ll never be as good as the guy who worked his way up from dipshit”
I was like damn I guess.
Oily_Bee
There’s those people who actually had experience and then went to school, they are not like the ones who did not.
spacex-predator
I think this depends on where you are and where you plan to work, Not all schools are the same, my experience with culinary school wasn’t good, but I have encountered some chefs that trained in other countries who did get a great amount of benefit from going. (I’m in Canada) I started from dishwasher and worked my way up quickly. Ultimately I think that it’s on the individual, as long as you continually push yourself you will do well.
jc80greybeard
Do you just brush one tooth, maybe just play one note to make a song?!
duderino_okc
I guess I’m a Super Chef then, worked my up from the dishpit to the line, and then went to Culinary school. 37 years later, I just think I’m a good Chef and more so a glutton for punishment.
rancidvat
I am doing both
acrankychef
Such weird perspective.
Here we all start in the dishpit, then you start an apprenticeship and get your papers as you work. Like, most people I’ve worked with, outside franchises.
mihir_lavande
I’ve done both. Study your ass off and keep learning new things, and throw yourself into the grind to build up your efficiency, speed, and to learn humility.
PansophicNostradamus
Recipe for a Great Chef:
A good amount from column A
A good amount from column B
Mix well, season properly, and get the Maillard reaction right.
bardtic_
Something that a lot of people don’t talk about is that very talented chefs can come up in the industry or go to culinary school.
The unfortunate part that most people don’t talk about is that 90% of being a successful chef is the management aspect. Learning to motivate, teach, and work with what you have(in terms of employees, food costs, price point, etc) is more important than a lot of actual culinary skills.
You get a lot more of this management aspect from actually working and experiencing the industry. But it’s something a lot of chefs never learn.
Creating a great food is important, but you won’t be successful without the above.
UnarmingLeech
I’m going into school after 12 years and it’s helping to define my knowledge on all fronts. Highly recommend. I’ve also met 3 new connects just in my area because of recommendations from school mates. I do think experience and knowledge of the industry is more necessary, but that’s just because I’ve seen fresh meat completely flop under pressure while bringing a full knife roll on their first day fresh out of school. All in all both ways are extremely important but experience will teach you the ways of a kitchen faster.
ocubens
Define a “good chef”.
Orangeshowergal
Terrible take.
Like all college, you get what you put in. Culinary school has a bad rep because it’s similar to liberal arts in academia. A low barrier to entry with a competitive job market.
Culinary school was the best choice of my life. Jump started my career and has me making 6 figures before hitting 30.
sseemour
i think culinary school is good if you want to understand food, but i’ve only met like 2 culinary students who didnt cave on a busy night. you cant teach work ethic
DreadPirateGriswold
Read that incorrectly as “dipshit.”
Oops…
jigga19
Not a chef (but cooking enthusiast) but high-end fancy bartender for much of my life. The best bartenders I met cut their teeth in smaller places and those who wanted to learn (and had the intelligence to match) moved up pretty quickly. But this was all on the job experience. I’ve known guys who can walk you through the entire geography of France based on grape varietal, or describe the nuances between the various scotch regions, or the storied history the martini, but didn’t know how to pour a draft beer, much less handle 12 people at once while rattling off the chronological timeline of The Rolling Stones and the hagiography of the New Orleans Saints for the past 30 years and wondering where the hell the bar back is. That’s all stuff you can’t teach, but you have to learn.
DreadPirateGriswold
There are classically trained successful chefs who have gone to culinary school.
Then there are chefs like Thomas Keller of French Laundry fame who never went to culinary school but grew up working in his family restaurant.
It’s not how you get there but that you get there and what do you do with your skills no matter how you acquired them.
K9oo8
doing my pastry arts + management diploma while working as a kitchen hand/dishie so I think I’m pretty well rounded
SchytStax
I’m the idiot that did both and pretty much just paid for a piece of paper. When you’re in le cordon bleu program and realize that the le cordon bleu chef you’ve been working under for 5 years already covered all this shit. So you end up as chefs assistant in every class and spend most of the lecture period prepping the lab and smoking weed with the maintenance crew. Was a fun experience, but I didn’t learn much about real kitchen work. I did however learn how many people thought that going to culinary school would make them a chef. It does not. I watched multiple atrocities by students in there final semesters, when you’re supposed to be “ready” for the real world applications. I watched a kid serve chef “ceviche” in international cuisine that he made with frozen whitefish. Chef was livid. And this kid apparently had a chef position already lined up for after graduation. This same kid also checked the sharpness of his knife by running his thumb lengthwise down the blade. Sliced it to the bone and bled all over everyone at the same work bench. Not only was he bleeding everywhere, but he had a few chefs in training ready to gut him with their blades because he ruined their whole lab with his stupidity. Then he had the nerve to blame me and said I showed him to do that. Luckily half the class chimed in and was like no. I showed them how chef taught me to run my thumbprint perpendicular across the blade for the feel and sound of sharpness. God I hope he never got that chef position.
newdoomsdays
Started as a dishwasher, worked my way up to Sous Chef. The chef there inspired me to take it seriously and go to school. At that point it was more about making connections and learning the business side of everything. Still did learn a lot about cooking though. Came out of school, opened a few restaurants as executive chef over the years and now I’m a director in senior living. Much better pay and hours. Would not have happened without the degree on my resume.
Pasta_Pista_404
Most culinary school guys also have to work their way up
LionBig1760
Successful chefs would be successful regardless of how they started.
OldSpaicu
Schooling can help a lot and is worth it if you can afford it imo, but ultimately nothing is more important than experience.
CodeHashbr0wn
Did both, it’s better than just one
cheesepage
Do both. Culinary school saves you time, obliviates knowledge gaps. Lets you see what the top of the heap looks like.
Experience on the floor is good for teaching you urgency, common sense, how to fix problems, and what to do if you don’t have the tool you had in culinary school.
(Decades of white tablecloth chef / pastry chef, two year technical degree, decades as a culinary teacher, lots and lots of dishwashing, line cooking, and tired feet.)
catscausetornadoes
The most successful people I know worked a couple years at least before going to culinary. Having some time in the game gives you a good idea of what you want out of school.
All_will_be_Juan
Most people did both….
TheConsequenceFairy
Culinary school teaches technique and theory. The commercial kitchen teaches the realities of service and real-world application of said theory.
Both combine to create a REAL working chef.
I’ve seen culinary educated crash and burn without real-world, working kitchen experience. I’ve seen kitchen educated crash and burn on the admin/business end and menu building.
One needs what the other has already learned to drive a successful kitchen.
Source – 30 yrs watching chefs of all education types and knowledge trying to make it work. It’s interesting to watch if you’re not the one caught up in the mess. The benefit of being a peasant in the kitchen hierarchy.
RedJalepeno1225
School isn’t about being a good cook it’s about knowledge that allows you to become a good cook. Knowledge you can’t get by a bunch of angry Spanish cooks and grumpy white dudes.
School will open up better paying jobs too and us chefs with degrees will hire others with degrees.
39 Comments
I feel like more award winning chefs went to culinary school, but most chefs didn’t. That’s what ive noticed in the industry.
Have the pride of someone willing to pay to learn this craft but have the humility of someone who has no other choice but to clean up after others
Neither is foolproof. There are culinary school folk who crumble under the pressure of the line, and there are old dishies who can’t scale a recipe to save their lives.
Norway, Sweden, Denmark all countries where culinary school is in high school, and extends with a 2 year apprenticeship are the countries whos been dominating Bocuse d’Or for 40 years.
Culinary school taught me a great deal about nutrition, chemistry, leadership, math and how to do the back end of cooking(ordering, menu development, food cost, etc)
Do both. They are not mutually exclusive.
There is a lot to learn in school. Learn it, then work from the bottom up. They both have their benefits
I really hate this conversation. There have been great chefs that went to school. There have been great chefs that didn’t. This industry is hard enough without us diminishing others for their career path.
I went to culinary school after 8 years in the field. I did it to learn the theory behind the practical knowledge I already had.
I agree with most people about doing both. Never think that you are above hopping in dish and grinding when it’s needed. Any good chef should be willing to do any of the jobs their staff do.
I read the second line as “But you’ll never be as good as the guy who worked his way up from dipshit”
I was like damn I guess.
There’s those people who actually had experience and then went to school, they are not like the ones who did not.
I think this depends on where you are and where you plan to work, Not all schools are the same, my experience with culinary school wasn’t good, but I have encountered some chefs that trained in other countries who did get a great amount of benefit from going. (I’m in Canada) I started from dishwasher and worked my way up quickly. Ultimately I think that it’s on the individual, as long as you continually push yourself you will do well.
Do you just brush one tooth, maybe just play one note to make a song?!
I guess I’m a Super Chef then, worked my up from the dishpit to the line, and then went to Culinary school. 37 years later, I just think I’m a good Chef and more so a glutton for punishment.
I am doing both
Such weird perspective.
Here we all start in the dishpit, then you start an apprenticeship and get your papers as you work. Like, most people I’ve worked with, outside franchises.
I’ve done both. Study your ass off and keep learning new things, and throw yourself into the grind to build up your efficiency, speed, and to learn humility.
Recipe for a Great Chef:
A good amount from column A
A good amount from column B
Mix well, season properly, and get the Maillard reaction right.
Something that a lot of people don’t talk about is that very talented chefs can come up in the industry or go to culinary school.
The unfortunate part that most people don’t talk about is that 90% of being a successful chef is the management aspect. Learning to motivate, teach, and work with what you have(in terms of employees, food costs, price point, etc) is more important than a lot of actual culinary skills.
You get a lot more of this management aspect from actually working and experiencing the industry. But it’s something a lot of chefs never learn.
Creating a great food is important, but you won’t be successful without the above.
I’m going into school after 12 years and it’s helping to define my knowledge on all fronts. Highly recommend. I’ve also met 3 new connects just in my area because of recommendations from school mates. I do think experience and knowledge of the industry is more necessary, but that’s just because I’ve seen fresh meat completely flop under pressure while bringing a full knife roll on their first day fresh out of school. All in all both ways are extremely important but experience will teach you the ways of a kitchen faster.
Define a “good chef”.
Terrible take.
Like all college, you get what you put in. Culinary school has a bad rep because it’s similar to liberal arts in academia. A low barrier to entry with a competitive job market.
Culinary school was the best choice of my life. Jump started my career and has me making 6 figures before hitting 30.
i think culinary school is good if you want to understand food, but i’ve only met like 2 culinary students who didnt cave on a busy night. you cant teach work ethic
Read that incorrectly as “dipshit.”
Oops…
Not a chef (but cooking enthusiast) but high-end fancy bartender for much of my life. The best bartenders I met cut their teeth in smaller places and those who wanted to learn (and had the intelligence to match) moved up pretty quickly. But this was all on the job experience. I’ve known guys who can walk you through the entire geography of France based on grape varietal, or describe the nuances between the various scotch regions, or the storied history the martini, but didn’t know how to pour a draft beer, much less handle 12 people at once while rattling off the chronological timeline of The Rolling Stones and the hagiography of the New Orleans Saints for the past 30 years and wondering where the hell the bar back is. That’s all stuff you can’t teach, but you have to learn.
There are classically trained successful chefs who have gone to culinary school.
Then there are chefs like Thomas Keller of French Laundry fame who never went to culinary school but grew up working in his family restaurant.
It’s not how you get there but that you get there and what do you do with your skills no matter how you acquired them.
doing my pastry arts + management diploma while working as a kitchen hand/dishie so I think I’m pretty well rounded
I’m the idiot that did both and pretty much just paid for a piece of paper. When you’re in le cordon bleu program and realize that the le cordon bleu chef you’ve been working under for 5 years already covered all this shit. So you end up as chefs assistant in every class and spend most of the lecture period prepping the lab and smoking weed with the maintenance crew. Was a fun experience, but I didn’t learn much about real kitchen work. I did however learn how many people thought that going to culinary school would make them a chef. It does not. I watched multiple atrocities by students in there final semesters, when you’re supposed to be “ready” for the real world applications. I watched a kid serve chef “ceviche” in international cuisine that he made with frozen whitefish. Chef was livid. And this kid apparently had a chef position already lined up for after graduation. This same kid also checked the sharpness of his knife by running his thumb lengthwise down the blade. Sliced it to the bone and bled all over everyone at the same work bench. Not only was he bleeding everywhere, but he had a few chefs in training ready to gut him with their blades because he ruined their whole lab with his stupidity. Then he had the nerve to blame me and said I showed him to do that. Luckily half the class chimed in and was like no. I showed them how chef taught me to run my thumbprint perpendicular across the blade for the feel and sound of sharpness. God I hope he never got that chef position.
Started as a dishwasher, worked my way up to Sous Chef. The chef there inspired me to take it seriously and go to school. At that point it was more about making connections and learning the business side of everything. Still did learn a lot about cooking though. Came out of school, opened a few restaurants as executive chef over the years and now I’m a director in senior living. Much better pay and hours. Would not have happened without the degree on my resume.
Most culinary school guys also have to work their way up
Successful chefs would be successful regardless of how they started.
Schooling can help a lot and is worth it if you can afford it imo, but ultimately nothing is more important than experience.
Did both, it’s better than just one
Do both. Culinary school saves you time, obliviates knowledge gaps. Lets you see what the top of the heap looks like.
Experience on the floor is good for teaching you urgency, common sense, how to fix problems, and what to do if you don’t have the tool you had in culinary school.
(Decades of white tablecloth chef / pastry chef, two year technical degree, decades as a culinary teacher, lots and lots of dishwashing, line cooking, and tired feet.)
The most successful people I know worked a couple years at least before going to culinary. Having some time in the game gives you a good idea of what you want out of school.
Most people did both….
Culinary school teaches technique and theory.
The commercial kitchen teaches the realities of service and real-world application of said theory.
Both combine to create a REAL working chef.
I’ve seen culinary educated crash and burn without real-world, working kitchen experience.
I’ve seen kitchen educated crash and burn on the admin/business end and menu building.
One needs what the other has already learned to drive a successful kitchen.
Source – 30 yrs watching chefs of all education types and knowledge trying to make it work. It’s interesting to watch if you’re not the one caught up in the mess. The benefit of being a peasant in the kitchen hierarchy.
School isn’t about being a good cook it’s about knowledge that allows you to become a good cook. Knowledge you can’t get by a bunch of angry Spanish cooks and grumpy white dudes.
School will open up better paying jobs too and us chefs with degrees will hire others with degrees.
had to re read because I read it as dipshit