I see people reference the bulk fermentation chart from My Sourdough Journey a lot. A lot of beginners are told that their loaves turn out flat because they let their dough rise 25-50% too much. I’ve been letting my dough double at 77-80°, when the chart says I should stop at 30-40. They turn out great. Is it just me? Im not saying that the chart is wrong, just that there are a lot of other variables that can cause issues. Pushing the BF time to see what happens is not a bad thing.
by BigJon611
29 Comments
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I am purely vibes when bulkin
Just baked two today that had (for me) epic bulk fermentation times of 8+ hours, and a warm 8+ hours at that.
I definitely have not been letting my fermentation go long enough.
But, I am loathe to generalize because my starter doesn’t really act like others I’ve read about.
Beautiful loaves! Yes perhaps people are, but it really is a good resource to visually see the relationship between dough temp and ferment time. There is correlation.
But you’re right — there are variables that everyone introduces into their own recipes. Different type of flours (rye, wheat), hydration, humidity, coldness of fridge, how often its opened, how much crap is potentially jam packed in it all play into the “real time” it takes for a proper bulk.
Sourdough is a science but it’s also an art.. unless you’re baking in a sterile and controlled environment, its best to use that chart as a baseline and make modifications from it based on your own environment and what you expect from your bread.
P.S. Does the wire rack really need to go that high? Are you experiencing sogginess on the bottom while cooling? I never had this issue — my rack about the same height or smaller (baking sheet style wire rack)
Chart is honestly unreliable – for some reason it neglects starter health and feeding schedule which is farrrr more important to bulk in my opinion. I do see it working for some people though. But more often than not, people that use the chart still underproof their loaves 😬😬😬
the most common mistake when it comes to bulk fermentation for beginners is under fermenting. it’s waaaaaaay easier to under ferment than over ferment. you are correct in that there are many variables based on each starter and home, which is why the guide is simply that, a guide, not a concrete way of doing things
I’ll try letting my dough double next time it ferments. Thank you for the suggestion.
I’ve had great success with it tbh. As someone who works crazy hours, having everything plannable is such a plus.
30% volume increase at 27°C is my go to, sometimes I push to 35%, pre shape, rest 30 mins, final shape and cold retard for at least 12 hours (<3°C) and it always works out for me.
Usually with a freshly fed (1:10:10) starter the night before, since i don’t like my bread too sour.
I personally struggle more with shaping 75-80% hydration doughs than BF, that ear you got is amazing! its like a 50:50 thing for me, sometimes they are amazing, sometimes they “glue” back together
I stopped worrying. I did do it once and it did say 5+ hours and mine doubles in 5 hours and if I don’t stop it by putting it in fridge it’ll triple really fast.
I use the temp chart along with this one and my bread always turns out pretty good. My dough usually doubles during bulk if I’m doing the times according to the recommendations so I kind of disregard the % doubling recs
https://preview.redd.it/8yuzc6s6vr6f1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=040e774cf152d4db2d49889040ef6f1ba1d1f68a
People take all of this too seriously. Most of the time the bread is fine.
The chart is ok for newbies who are learning. It’s better than a generic recipe that gives a set BF time. My advice is usually to use the chart, but to push BF longer to observe all the changes.
I think it’s a good starting point since many people under ferment their bread and it can help get over the “sticker shock” of how long you actually need to go. But then I feel like people don’t always want to make the adjustments after. I get it, I’m a rule following recipe girl, but that just ain’t how sourdough works
I’m sure that chart works great for a lot of people. I use it as a rough estimate of time but I just let the dough tell me when it’s done, man. My dough is always 78-80 degrees because I live in Texas and sometimes it takes up to 9-10 hours. My loaves come out just like yours and are delicious. I have been using an aliquot cup though lately and that has helped me not to over ferment.
It’s a beginner guide to help show the relationship between temperature and fermentation. It’s based off TSJ running multiple tests with their own starter, flour, etc.
>Estimated times are a good **starting point, but everyone’s starter is different**, so estimated times are the least accurate method for determining the end of bulk fermentation. Experienced bakers learn to watch the dough and ignore the clock!
Clearly states it’s a starting point and bakers can try it out and then adjust for their own starter and other variables.
>Recipe Assumptions: 90% bread flour, 10% whole-wheat flour, 75% hydration, 2% salt, 20% starter
>**Final proof / cold retard at 39F/4C for 12- 16 hours.** Bulk fermentation timing begins when you add the starter. “Strong” starters may ferment faster
The chart says to stop BF with a low percent rise at high temps because it takes time for dough in the fridge to get cold. During that time it keeps fermenting and if you put it in a fridge at high temp it can ferment a lot more before getting low enough to slow down and stop. Further since fermentation is exponential it picks up speed later in the process. The time to go from 0%-30% rise at low temps could be 9 hours and the time for 30%-75% be just 2. That will also be more extreme at higher temps so you stop earlier to account for it.
Really [this page](https://thesourdoughjourney.com/the-mystery-of-percentage-rise-in-bulk-fermentation/) or minutes 8-20 of [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p69UMuYJhJsshould) should be recommended to beginners instead.
Yes, and alot of users here seem to underproof because they follow it religiously. I’ve bulked between double and triple at 75-80f without overproofing
I don’t know anything about making sourdough and so I do not have an answer to your question, but I just have to say those are some beautiful loaves of bread you’ve baked there. Would buy; would eat.
its a helpful guide when youre just getting introduced to sourdough baking. however, our ancestors have been feeding their families with sourdough for hundreds of years without these charts or anything. they were taught by their elders. do whatever gets you desirable results. i never even temp my dough anymore i have a hive mind with it, and it always works out.
I use the chart a lot because I have fluctuating kitchen temperatures during the day and seasonally. If I could not reference dough temperature I’d be over-proofing every other batch of dough 🤣
The problem I see is that people fling the chart around as a reference without realizing it is for a specific recipe. If someone’s recipe is using 30% starter the chart will not work. If someone is using US AP flour instead of bread flour, or rye as their add in the chart will be off. They also don’t provide the video link that discusses how to use the chart and all the details.
The times are pretty significantly off for my starter’s speed too, but they are more of a planning tool.
I appreciate that The Sourdough Journey has put so very much work into testing and analyzing starters and dough behavior. It has saved me a lot of time not having to figure many things out on my own.
How much you can overproof your loaves is also affected by your specific flour. Two of my flours have amylase or malted barley in them. My dough can overproof and still be totally shapeable and a nice loaf. I am working with a new flour this week – ground and sifted wheat, no additives at all. I only slightly over proofed the dough and I got flat loaves. Good for dipping in soup, but otherwise useless as the main bread for the week. So now I need to decide if I want to regularly add diastatic malt when I use that flour or only bake in loaf tins. And that flour is 13.8%+ protein. I expected it to have a little more gluten support than what I got 😩.
Some of us mortals need help. But I love it when people that have mastered their Craft are totally dicks about it. The world needs a sourdough super villain, tired of all the niceties you know what I’m saying.??
There’s a chart?
And here’s me who’s given up because my starter doesn’t rise worth shit.
So many attempts, so many fails.
I no longer let mine double or triple in size. I go by how it looks, and if it pulls away from the bowl easily.
I appreciate the guides put together by the sourdough journey but I’ve found that it results in notorious under proofing. Volume has never been a good indicator (or even time really). I always wait till the dough wobbles around in my mixing bowl and that’s when I know it’s ready, usually around 7 hours (Bay Area 65-70F temp in kitchen)
Exactly, the charts been a huge help for me starting out but it isn’t perfect for every recipe, starter, flour… I use a homemade bread proofer and an aliquot jar so it’s a lot easier for me to get consistent results and experiment.
It’s cold here. I used a seed warming mat and a container I can get it to 22c. I BF for 8 hours and the dough feels right. I think I pre shape then proof for 1 hour then shape and then in 30min cook. I don’t get the rise and my bread is heavy and dense. But with what I think is a nice crumb. I read all your comments and still don’t know what do next. Should I be following the guide you’re taking about and would some kindly share me a link?
I never check the time anymore. I purely go by jiggle. Too many factors at play tbh. I need to bulk ferment way longer for some reason, my house is pretty dark and cold even in the summer. But People keep telling me my sourdough is the best they’ve ever had. Hopefully they’re not lying!
🙋♂️I am scared of it
I’ve tried temping but my dough is about 77 degrees and never done BF in 6 hours. I really think it’s going to be one of those “whispers from your ancestors” and really learning my dough. Summertime is like learning all over again. So I try and make sure I jot down any tweaks I make so if I finally find MY perfect recipe that makes MY idea of what the crumb should be I’ll just keep at it. I make some awesome discard crackers tho 😂 The loaf I’m going to mix tomorrow I plan to open bake and set my oven to air fry and see what happens!