LA’s Newest Salt & Straw in Hot Water After Opening Next to a 17-Year-Old Gelato Shop
Guess I won’t be going to Salt and Straw anymore, this is really gross corporate behavior
by 3axel3loop
36 Comments
MARCOESCONDOLAZ
Wish I could downvote salt and straw!
connectall6
Do they still sell the goat cheese with olive brittle?
city_mac
> Buch confirms that he “tested the market” by soliciting potential tenants to sublease his space during the height of the pandemic. “I was just curious, ‘What is my profit? What is my business worth?’ because I was concerned. I don’t know if I can survive another pandemic,” he says.
So the guy signals that he’s going to close up shop and the landlord signs a lease for another ice cream shop so the problem is where? I mean salt and straw kind of us sucks yeah but it seems like this is just par for the course and the guy was about to leave anyway.
thatsusguy2
Capitalism… money goes where people spend it…
Amazing-Bag
Easy if people really cared about the 17yr shop they would shop there.
Fuck_You_Downvote
He has a lease, it is a legally binding contract. If he has renewal options left, he can exercise them and stay in the space. His lease should also have exclusions on what he can and cannot sell, and often landlords will exclude retail tenants from stealing each others business.
It is not a salt and straw problem. The landlord would rather lease to them because they are the better credit tenant who will likely pay a higher rent than someone who has been there 17 years with fixed 3% annual rent bumps.
So the gelato guy has a legal case or he does not. Getting sympathy will not get him a lease.
My gut says he fucked up by dragging his feet at renewal time.
This is not residential. At the end of your lease it is not month to month. You pack up your shit and get out, otherwise we foreclose on your house due to that recourse lease you signed, because … it’s a legally binding contract.
americasweetheart
The Silver Lake strip of sunset is really changing and it’s pretty sad. Legacy businesses are closing and chain stores are popping up in their wake. The foot traffic in that area is because of those quirky businesses.
IAMTHESILVERSURFER
MF’rs in here equating S&S with Starbucks
zq1232
I don’t really get why S&S is getting any heat for this- they’re an expanding brand, looked for a location that fit their needs and this location was offered and fit those needs. Frankly, I don’t think it’s really on them to need to consider Pazzo being a locally owned shop. If it’s truly a community staple, then the neighborhood should’ve been supporting it to begin with. What seems clear is that Pazzo and the realty company seem to be at some sort of odds, but I don’t think S&S is at fault there.
stopppppppppppp
1. Gelato guy (GG) has 2 years left on his lease. He tried to sublet his place in the past and wasn’t able to, and has indicated he wants to leave. 2. Realty company responds like a rational economic actor thinking they could replace a gelato shop with an ice cream shop in the event GG leaves. They lease another space out to Salt & Straw, a tenant that will likely pay more in rent and drive more traffic to the location than GG. 3. Contract between S&S and realty company has no exclusivity or noncompete clauses, so GG can stay if he wants to. 4. But he knows S&S has a better, more competitive product and his sales will suffer, so what he does do? 5. Of course, he conducts a scorched earth traditional and social media campaign to slander S&S’s reputation and suggest he is somehow being targeted by a giant corporate behemoth. When what really probably happened is he showed his cards to RC before he should’ve and they went out and got a better tenant. S&S could be successful anywhere and the idea that they are trying to bully GG or something is absurd, this guy should probably stop flattering himself.
moddestmouse
gentrification leads to yuppiefication. Sad stuff.
dietcokewLime
Is 17 years an institution already? They’ve been there since 2006…
I’ve had their gelato and it’s fine.
MikeHawkisgonne
I remember reading a business case study once that two businesses close to each other don’t necessarily cannibalize, but may increase overall sales for the original business. Not sure if that’s valid here, but the idea that all or most of the gelato’s customers will now go to the new business doesn’t seem accurate.
recordgrrl
I think the reason locals are so outraged is that the owner of Pazzo has been so great in the community here for 17 years. They always donate and do fundraisers for local schools, charities and causes. They are great community members that give back and the owner actually often works there so many of us know him. Although some may argue that a gelato shop just existing here marked the start of the area’s gentrification, this is one of those mom and pops that people here are passionate about. The thought (although disputed) that there could be a nefarious non-compete clause by a competitor moving in right next door agreed to by an unresponsive corporate landlord against a beloved business got us riled up. That is why my neighbors and I won’t be supporting S&S and are still hoping Pazzo can remain.
Edited to add: I forgot to mention Pazzo’s offerings are also delicious! Long live Pazzo.
ram0h
yay to more salt and straws.
and this sounds like it is one the gelato shop.
tklite
Honestly, if the place is any good, it will probably get more business because of the Salt & Straw.
Shock_city
Salt and straw ain’t it for me. Feels like quantity over quality when it came to flavors.
KarmaPoIice
I live close to hear and there is an obvious new, even greater level of gentrification sweeping down Sunset blvd in the area right now. It’s starting to look like Larchmont
this_is_sy
Unpopular opinion: I have eaten at Pazzo Gelato and didn’t think it was all that good. Not all businesses deserve to succeed. I definitely feel like this particular business sat back and let the rest of the “artisanal frozen treats” industry pass it by.
I guess the landlord bringing in another ice cream place next door is shitty behavior, but I’m not losing sleep over it.
sandykennedy
If you need anymore reason to boycott Salt & Straw, please know that it is a terrible place to work. I worked in their pastry kitchens for a couple of years and it was the most toxic work environment I have ever worked in. Tyler and the rest of the upper management did not value the team who actually made the ice cream. I quit after many weeks of crying over how bad it was to work there.
Marnie28
The gentrifiers under attack after they themselves destroyed that area. Oh, the irony.
CypeMonster
S&S and Shake Shack in Silverlake. It’s only a matter of time before it turns into Melrose and all the hipster gentrifiers are displaced by the douchebag influencers 🤣
sunoma
It opened during the bush administration, not exactly a historical site
Eugene-Pontecorvo
“As a small family owned business owner myself….” Owns and operates 30 ice cream shop on the west coast and Florida.
Minkiemink
Not saying this is the same, but many years ago when there were many craft galleries across America a wealthy couple had a great idea. They hired the owner of a popular craft gallery as a consultant and with that person’s help went about expanding pretty rapidly.
Their business model was to open their new galleries either next to or close to long established craft galleries. They then approached the long established galleries’ artists and offered to buy big from those artists if the artist would sell to them instead of the galleries that had supported them and their art for years. They also wanted terms from those artists ranging from 60-90-120 days. Not totally unusual in the 1980s. A lot of artists saw this as a business decision, betrayed the people who depended on them and sold big to this new company.
When they approached me, (I am a goldsmith), I told them in no uncertain terms to go fuck themselves. I had zero intention of screwing over the galleries that had given me my start and had faithfully bought from me even in leaner times. I also laughed out loud at the idea that I was going to give a new business with no track record other than trying to erase their competition by stealing their suppliers, long payment terms.
Over the course of the few years these fucks were in operation, they drove more than a few craft galleries out of business by taking their most sought after artists. When the assholes finally went bankrupt, (I think it was 3 years in operation total), they financially wiped out a lot of the artists who had given them lots of their product with long payment terms. I just sat back and shook my head. I’m still in business. Almost none of the people who sold their work to these creeps are still working in the field.
This big gelato company declaring that they are a small business is laughable. May they get the public rejection that they so deserve. That said, I’d love to hear the rest of the story.
idontsmokeheroin
I don’t even eat at In & Out because of the Christ stuff. Don’t want my money being somehow funneled into some Desantisesque agenda.
I’m also gonna get downvoted for this, but thousand island dressing glopped on shitty fries just isn’t that great.
pongalong
Salt and Straw is overly sweet. It tastes like a supermarket cupcake.
papkomemai
what’s missing from this conversation is that S&S’s ice cream really kind of sucks.
i’m surprised they’ve lasted in LA for so long.
BananaPeelSlippers
Can someone give me the rule on how old a business has to be so that a competing business can no longer open up next to it ?
cleverdylanrefrence
A Dunkin doughnuts in my hometown did this. Opened up right next door to a beloved mom & pop coffee shop. Less than a year later, that mom & pop is closed and locals are PISSED (but not pissed enough to stop buying Dunks apparently)
single-needle
interesting contrast… buch bought a few properties on silver lake and vendome in 2006. he wasn’t so keen on keeping the apt pricing low back then, I was a tenant at one of his apts. he also used to own the Mongolian grill, Gobi, where the 2nd pergoletta location is today.
bluefrostyAP
Happy there’s more salt and straws
JoeOpus
17 years….Maybe if it was 70 years I’d be a little more turned off. 2006 is a good amount of time but it’s not like a 3rd generation shop or something like that.
Eicyer
This in Silverlake / sunset junction. I did noticed that the gelato place is emptier than usual since ss opened. It’s only been a few days…
nirad
Dear owner of Pazzo Gelato, please consider moving down the street a ways to Echo Park. For some reason we have two vegan options here (Kind Kreme and Yoga-urt), but no traditional ice cream.
sfgirl24
S&S is opening in Manhattan Beach, directly ACROSS from a locally owned ice cream parlor.
36 Comments
Wish I could downvote salt and straw!
Do they still sell the goat cheese with olive brittle?
> Buch confirms that he “tested the market” by soliciting potential tenants to sublease his space during the height of the pandemic. “I was just curious, ‘What is my profit? What is my business worth?’ because I was concerned. I don’t know if I can survive another pandemic,” he says.
So the guy signals that he’s going to close up shop and the landlord signs a lease for another ice cream shop so the problem is where? I mean salt and straw kind of us sucks yeah but it seems like this is just par for the course and the guy was about to leave anyway.
Capitalism… money goes where people spend it…
Easy if people really cared about the 17yr shop they would shop there.
He has a lease, it is a legally binding contract. If he has renewal options left, he can exercise them and stay in the space. His lease should also have exclusions on what he can and cannot sell, and often landlords will exclude retail tenants from stealing each others business.
It is not a salt and straw problem. The landlord would rather lease to them because they are the better credit tenant who will likely pay a higher rent than someone who has been there 17 years with fixed 3% annual rent bumps.
So the gelato guy has a legal case or he does not. Getting sympathy will not get him a lease.
My gut says he fucked up by dragging his feet at renewal time.
This is not residential. At the end of your lease it is not month to month. You pack up your shit and get out, otherwise we foreclose on your house due to that recourse lease you signed, because … it’s a legally binding contract.
The Silver Lake strip of sunset is really changing and it’s pretty sad. Legacy businesses are closing and chain stores are popping up in their wake. The foot traffic in that area is because of those quirky businesses.
MF’rs in here equating S&S with Starbucks
I don’t really get why S&S is getting any heat for this- they’re an expanding brand, looked for a location that fit their needs and this location was offered and fit those needs. Frankly, I don’t think it’s really on them to need to consider Pazzo being a locally owned shop. If it’s truly a community staple, then the neighborhood should’ve been supporting it to begin with. What seems clear is that Pazzo and the realty company seem to be at some sort of odds, but I don’t think S&S is at fault there.
1. Gelato guy (GG) has 2 years left on his lease. He tried to sublet his place in the past and wasn’t able to, and has indicated he wants to leave.
2. Realty company responds like a rational economic actor thinking they could replace a gelato shop with an ice cream shop in the event GG leaves. They lease another space out to Salt & Straw, a tenant that will likely pay more in rent and drive more traffic to the location than GG.
3. Contract between S&S and realty company has no exclusivity or noncompete clauses, so GG can stay if he wants to.
4. But he knows S&S has a better, more competitive product and his sales will suffer, so what he does do?
5. Of course, he conducts a scorched earth traditional and social media campaign to slander S&S’s reputation and suggest he is somehow being targeted by a giant corporate behemoth. When what really probably happened is he showed his cards to RC before he should’ve and they went out and got a better tenant. S&S could be successful anywhere and the idea that they are trying to bully GG or something is absurd, this guy should probably stop flattering himself.
gentrification leads to yuppiefication. Sad stuff.
Is 17 years an institution already? They’ve been there since 2006…
I’ve had their gelato and it’s fine.
I remember reading a business case study once that two businesses close to each other don’t necessarily cannibalize, but may increase overall sales for the original business. Not sure if that’s valid here, but the idea that all or most of the gelato’s customers will now go to the new business doesn’t seem accurate.
I think the reason locals are so outraged is that the owner of Pazzo has been so great in the community here for 17 years. They always donate and do fundraisers for local schools, charities and causes. They are great community members that give back and the owner actually often works there so many of us know him. Although some may argue that a gelato shop just existing here marked the start of the area’s gentrification, this is one of those mom and pops that people here are passionate about. The thought (although disputed) that there could be a nefarious non-compete clause by a competitor moving in right next door agreed to by an unresponsive corporate landlord against a beloved business got us riled up. That is why my neighbors and I won’t be supporting S&S and are still hoping Pazzo can remain.
Edited to add: I forgot to mention Pazzo’s offerings are also delicious! Long live Pazzo.
yay to more salt and straws.
and this sounds like it is one the gelato shop.
Honestly, if the place is any good, it will probably get more business because of the Salt & Straw.
Salt and straw ain’t it for me. Feels like quantity over quality when it came to flavors.
I live close to hear and there is an obvious new, even greater level of gentrification sweeping down Sunset blvd in the area right now. It’s starting to look like Larchmont
Unpopular opinion: I have eaten at Pazzo Gelato and didn’t think it was all that good. Not all businesses deserve to succeed. I definitely feel like this particular business sat back and let the rest of the “artisanal frozen treats” industry pass it by.
I guess the landlord bringing in another ice cream place next door is shitty behavior, but I’m not losing sleep over it.
If you need anymore reason to boycott Salt & Straw, please know that it is a terrible place to work. I worked in their pastry kitchens for a couple of years and it was the most toxic work environment I have ever worked in. Tyler and the rest of the upper management did not value the team who actually made the ice cream. I quit after many weeks of crying over how bad it was to work there.
The gentrifiers under attack after they themselves destroyed that area. Oh, the irony.
S&S and Shake Shack in Silverlake. It’s only a matter of time before it turns into Melrose and all the hipster gentrifiers are displaced by the douchebag influencers 🤣
It opened during the bush administration, not exactly a historical site
“As a small family owned business owner myself….” Owns and operates 30 ice cream shop on the west coast and Florida.
Not saying this is the same, but many years ago when there were many craft galleries across America a wealthy couple had a great idea. They hired the owner of a popular craft gallery as a consultant and with that person’s help went about expanding pretty rapidly.
Their business model was to open their new galleries either next to or close to long established craft galleries. They then approached the long established galleries’ artists and offered to buy big from those artists if the artist would sell to them instead of the galleries that had supported them and their art for years. They also wanted terms from those artists ranging from 60-90-120 days. Not totally unusual in the 1980s. A lot of artists saw this as a business decision, betrayed the people who depended on them and sold big to this new company.
When they approached me, (I am a goldsmith), I told them in no uncertain terms to go fuck themselves. I had zero intention of screwing over the galleries that had given me my start and had faithfully bought from me even in leaner times. I also laughed out loud at the idea that I was going to give a new business with no track record other than trying to erase their competition by stealing their suppliers, long payment terms.
Over the course of the few years these fucks were in operation, they drove more than a few craft galleries out of business by taking their most sought after artists. When the assholes finally went bankrupt, (I think it was 3 years in operation total), they financially wiped out a lot of the artists who had given them lots of their product with long payment terms. I just sat back and shook my head. I’m still in business. Almost none of the people who sold their work to these creeps are still working in the field.
This big gelato company declaring that they are a small business is laughable. May they get the public rejection that they so deserve. That said, I’d love to hear the rest of the story.
I don’t even eat at In & Out because of the Christ stuff. Don’t want my money being somehow funneled into some Desantisesque agenda.
I’m also gonna get downvoted for this, but thousand island dressing glopped on shitty fries just isn’t that great.
Salt and Straw is overly sweet. It tastes like a supermarket cupcake.
what’s missing from this conversation is that S&S’s ice cream really kind of sucks.
i’m surprised they’ve lasted in LA for so long.
Can someone give me the rule on how old a business has to be so that a competing business can no longer open up next to it ?
A Dunkin doughnuts in my hometown did this. Opened up right next door to a beloved mom & pop coffee shop. Less than a year later, that mom & pop is closed and locals are PISSED (but not pissed enough to stop buying Dunks apparently)
interesting contrast… buch bought a few properties on silver lake and vendome in 2006. he wasn’t so keen on keeping the apt pricing low back then, I was a tenant at one of his apts. he also used to own the Mongolian grill, Gobi, where the 2nd pergoletta location is today.
Happy there’s more salt and straws
17 years….Maybe if it was 70 years I’d be a little more turned off. 2006 is a good amount of time but it’s not like a 3rd generation shop or something like that.
This in Silverlake / sunset junction. I did noticed that the gelato place is emptier than usual since ss opened. It’s only been a few days…
Dear owner of Pazzo Gelato, please consider moving down the street a ways to Echo Park. For some reason we have two vegan options here (Kind Kreme and Yoga-urt), but no traditional ice cream.
S&S is opening in Manhattan Beach, directly ACROSS from a locally owned ice cream parlor.