Hello all! A little preface to explain why I'm asking, and then the recipe/process will follow.
I have been baking sourdough for over 5 years but just recently started selling (yes, following state laws and yes, I carry a liability insurance policy). I have been very pleased with my bread, especially as I've been making more for orders and improving with every loaf. So far, customer feedback has all been good/great, but recently one customer in particular has complained multiple times that my bread "rises too high" and is "too airy inside" and that the sourdough bread she buys from so-and-so isn't like that. I tried explaining that every baker's sourdough is different, but she continues to insist I must be doing something wrong (yet she keeps coming back to buy more! 🤣)
So I'm turning to you all for your opinions. Is this just a matter of my bread tending to have a more wild crumb, or am I really doing something wrong?
The photos are of multiple loaves of bread but should give an idea of the average appearance of the crumb – I like to take a lot of pictures as I'm slicing! 🙂
Recipe:
500g freshly stone milled & sifted flour
375g water
100g active starter
10g salt
Dough temp: 78 degrees
Mix in kitchenaid until starting to climb the hook, then a set of stretch and folds every 30 minutes until the dough holds the shape of the previous fold in the bowl. Usually takes 4-5 s&f
BF until not quite doubled (my 3-loaf batch rises from 2.25 qt starting volume to 4qt volume at shaping, typically takes 5.5-6 hrs at 78 degree F dough temp), pre-shape then rest 30 minutes, final shape and into loaf pan then counter proof 30min-1 hr depending on room temperature. Then into the fridge overnight, then baked at 450 for 25 minutes lid on and 20 minutes lid off.
Some info on my starter: it is fed with a 50/50 mix of whole rye flour and sifted wheat flour (both freshly milled). I feed anywhere from a 1:3:3 ratio to a 1:10:10 ratio depending on room temperature and how much starter I need for mixing dough. pH at peak is around 4.2, it has no problem doubling/tripling and I feed peak-to-peak.
So what are your thoughts? I'd love some feedback on whether unnamed customer is correct, or if it's just a matter of different tastes.
Thank you for any feedback!
by Muffingston
32 Comments
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Nothing wrong here. Matter of tastes.
Eventually you could dry it more for bigger and more crusty crust and better storage durability.
It definitely seems like a “preference” thing. If that’s the only complaint I wouldn’t put much stock in it. It’s worth it to consider feedback but also recognize it’s your business so you can just move on.
looks great, im still struggling to get airpockets.
Your customer just wants different bread, thats fine. But thats not the problem of you and youre bread.
Looks absolutely perfect to me!
Stupit Customer
For bread made on this loaf trays I’d also prefer less bubbles so I can spread something on it without it falling through that much. Other than that your bread looks delicious! Congratulations.
It doesn’t look good, it looks great! That said for a sandwich type person I could see wanting a tighter crumb. For a dipper though… spot on! You’re at 78% hydration-ish. You could continue and be doing very well, or you could lower the hydration a bit and tighten the crumb. Try 70% and see if they like it. You may even prefer handling the dough at that %. Milk or honey could be something else to play around with as an alternative or additive measure.
If you reduce the liquid it will be a tighter crumb.
I think your loaves are beautiful – this is actually what I’m aspiring to achieve – a wild crumb in a sandwich loaf. I’m just a hobby baker (don’t sell … yet), but maybe your customer is getting bread that is not as nicely proofed as yours (more dense), and that’s what she’s used to. Weird that she keeps coming back. I wouldn’t change a thing. Thanks for posting your detailed instructions. I proof my loaves at around 78-80F, but only until 30% rise. I keep getting ok loaves, but the crumb is tight. After reading your instructions, I’m thinking I need to bulk ferment longer. Your loaves are the most beautiful loaf pan loaves I’ve seen. You should be proud of your work. Your customer doesn’t know what she’s talking about – there’s nothing wrong here.
Why cater to a customer that doesn’t care for what you produce?
The majority of your business is from customers who like what you make.
It’s unfortunate to hear complaints, but some folks are just critical about everything.
Your bread looks great. Add to your offerings but don’t change what works.
It’s beautiful. Tell the person they’re welcome to try another bread elsewhere but this is your recipe.
If you want to cater to this customer needs. Maybe you make two types….open crumb and tight crumb. Use 325g water in tighter crumb recipe. Everything else same.
Good luck.
It looks great but you might consider another recipe for people who don’t like big holes 🙂 ( lower hydration or some sandwich loaves)
this is totally a matter of personal preference I think – this is my dream crumb! guess I need to try upping my hydration lol
This sourdough is perfect.
That being said, crumb is often preference based, and if you’re interested in keeping this customer and perhaps adding more like them, have you considered making a second recipe that is lower hydration and tighter crumb for their preference? Some people enjoy a tight crumb for spreads and sandwiches.
I can definitely see why customers might enjoy less open crumb loaves for better butter retention, but that crumb looks like the best of both worlds. Definitely a preference thing for the customer. Can’t please everyone
That’s exactly how I like my bread. Looks perfect to me.
I would kindly but firmly tell her that I’m not the baker for her, and perhaps she would be better off buying her bread from another baker.
Personal opinion. I think it looks fantastic. That’s what I want my sourdough to look like
For what it’s worth, your bread looks very much like the bread I bought at Tartine Bakery in San Francisco. Suffice to say it was not inexpensive.
The Tartine guy has written several very comprehensive books on the subject and his base recipe runs to some 30 pages so I’d say what you make looks perfect!
I think she needs to make her own sourdough since she’s such an expert
Maybe since it’s in a loaf pan shape, they’re expecting sandwich style bread? You could even try offering sandwich loaves with a soft, tighter crumb, as well as rustic loaves like in the photos if you wanted.
Your bread looks perfect to me though!
You could do both.
Sell a 78% and 70% hydration loaves and let them pick what they prefer.
For sourdough I prefer the more open crumb, for regular yeast bread I prefer a tighter crumb
Wish mine came out like that. Someone will also complain when the crumb is not airy enough.
It looks yummy but for things like sandwiches people may want less air pockets.
I love all the nooks and crannies for spreads to fill. Looks amazing!
Beautiful bread. Don’t change a thing.
I’m impressed that you get that open crumb in a loaf pan.
Do you ever add any whole wheat, and if so – how much – and can you maintain that open crumb?
I’ll try following your recipe!
If you try to be everyone’s bakery, you’ll end up as nobody’s bakery. Hold fast! Your pictures would indicate to me that, not only is your crumb not “too” open, it also looks very consistent, loaf to loaf. I’d say it looks like your doing a great job. There’s ZERO discussion to be had here, the customer can continue to buy your bread or not but one persons opinion has little to no meaning in business. Especially if it’s a negative one that isn’t shared by more customers. It’s sourdough, it has an uneven crumb. Some work to suppress that aspect, some work to emphasize it. Your good, don’t let the hater get ya’
Suggest you find new customer, nothing “wrong” with that crumb 🫢
it’s beautiful. I bet it tastes good too
Suggest to your customer that there are many other wonderful breads that might be what he’s looking for. Just not your perfect sourdough!