My husband and kids love sourdough. They are so excited that I am trying to make sourdough. The problem is I’m on attempt #7??? And it’s still not clocking to me. I’ve made 2 edible loaves.
I was feeding my starter 1:1:1 every day (the chickens like the discard), then I started putting it in the fridge. I read you should feed it more than 1:1, so the last 2 attempts I’ve tried a 1:10:10 at night and use it the next morning.
I just mixed up the dough for my next attempt:
100grams starter (from picture, some of it floated for a few seconds then sunk, it has doubled)
350 grams water
500 grams King Arthur bread flour
10 grams salt
I mixed it in my stand mixer.
It’s sticky and doesn’t have good strength (it will fall apart if I pick it up).
I’m about to do my 2nd set of stretch and folds but why can I not get this right????
Sorry I’m so dumb😫😫
by Rich-Article2979
39 Comments
https://preview.redd.it/q0kp2x5javef1.jpeg?width=4284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a932312a8cb6e440d0844546693208ca5d7220e6
Dough after 1 set of stretch and folds
For the starter, I feed it like 60% flour, 40% water and a spoonful of starter. This makes a stiffer starter and it expresses it’s rising better. Not trying to self promote but I do have a write up on a half decent loaf recipe: https://www.reddit.com/r/Sourdough/s/m2DRLQfM68
what’s the weather like this time of year? it’s extremely hot a humid where I live right now and even though I have central air and have my ac at 68 350g of water was waaaaayyyyyy too much. I kept getting a sticky unusable mess
[This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNCL6jwRJTo) is all you need to know.
I googled King Arthur bread flour. It has protein 12.7%. Flours I use in the UK are 14 to 15%.
Water seems a bit high. Based on my ratios, consider 320 to 325g for 500g flour (applying my ratios that work), but other hydrations may be even more suitable. My starter amount is 90g to 100g, so similar to yours. Salt 9g for my 460g flour.
Feeding the starter is very different. I keep ~100g starter in the fridge. I take it out of the fridge and let it warm up over a couple of hours or so. It will be bubbling a bit at that point. I feed with 50 to 60g Scottish spring water warmed to 25 to 30c and the same amount of rye. “Wait, isn’t that less than 1:1:1”, yes it is, and I do that because it works and I don’t want to have massive amounts of discard. It will double to triple in a few hours. I use immediately, clean the rim of my jar and scrape the sides of the jar to recover most of what’s there and keep it clean. I refrigerate immediately while it’s still very active from the feed. I next use it in 5 to 6 days. I have been expecting the starter to weaken, but the last feed it actually overflowed for the first time, so that doesn’t seem to be happening (though we have also had some heatwaves in the uk). I also warm the water that I add when making the dough.
So, I’d experiment with amounts, and I feel that you don’t need to be feeding anywhere nearly so much as you are if you have an active starter to work with, which it sounds like you do at this point.
And good luck! Stick with it because it will be worth it. It took me a while with two or three restarts to even get a viable starter, and I had to change flours as the flour for my first loaf wasn’t a good choice (also low protein), but then things started working.
What i did was feed it 1:1:1 then gradually 1:3:3 (if using all purpose flour – you can put 75% of the water to the 3 parts all-purpose flour for example 5gr starter:15gr ap:11.25g water) then bump it up to 1:5:5 eventually then 1:10:10.
how old is your starter? i didn’t start making edible bread until my starter was about 3 months old. i also never had any success with 1:1:1 ratio, it was always too acidic / runny / alcoholic. i started feeding 80% AP 20% WW at 1:5:5 daily or 1:10:10 the night before i went to bake. it could be that your starter simply has too much acid in it to create gluten. i also wouldn’t recommend putting it in the fridge until it’s stronger
Mix it with a spoon, let sit 30 min and do 4 sets of stretch and folds every 30 min. Let it bulk ferment until the volume has increased 50%. Don’t use a stand mixer
I believe in you! We’ve all failed our fair share of times before finally getting it right, so I know how frustrating it is for you.
Here’s a recipe I’ve found to work: https://www.theclevercarrot.com/2014/01/sourdough-bread-a-beginners-guide/
I also have better luck baking in a loaf pan. Bake at 425°F for 25min with a pan of water, take the pan of water out and bake for another 10-20min.
To be honest, 2 decent loaves in your first 7 is already pretty good. Sourdough is something that once it kind of clicks, you start getting better and better and it becomes a lot more enjoyable. Getting into it is a bit of a struggle though
I was so frustrated with my starters. Nothing worked until I started using ww flour. Then it boomed. Now I’m at a point with it that I keep it in the fridge during the week, and pull it out on Thursday to bake with sat /sun. Although I usually pull it and feed it Thursday. As I’m writing this I’ve realized I pulled it and left it on the stove without feeding it lol. It’s ok I’ll feed it tonight and then in the morning. Tmrw night after work I’ll mix the dough to bake on Sat.
Do you want to tell us what recipe you are working with? Sometimes when you are new to sourdough you can get recipes that use too much water for your flour or with more complex steps than are necessary. Hopefully you have a good one so you can stick with it to find the routine that works for you.
It certainly is wearying when you think you are following instructions and get poor results. Sourdough can be very imprecise or unpredictable since you are dependent on this jar of wild yeast to do magic for you and it is running on its own schedule 😀
As your starter gets stronger it actually behaves more predictably and you will get into a rhythm with it.
Ignore the float test, it’s unreliable and therefore meaningless. All it does is tell you if the starter is more or less dense than water. Good starter can sink, bad starter can float.
Have you heard of The Bread Code on YouTube? His videos really helped me turn the corner. His low hydration recipe with whole wheat and bread flour finally got me success. I was so discouraged before finding him! I baked a lot at first and rarely put my starter in the fridge. It got strong fast with daily feedings and discards. Initially, most of my problem was just weak starter and cold indoor winter kitchen temps. All the fails are going to make that first good loaf feel so sweet. Don’t give up!!
It’s not for everyone, buddy. lol.
Did you make your starter? If you did it just might not be strong enough. I would recommend getting some starter from a friend if this is the case. One time I start or died and I just posted in my neighborhood Facebook group and so many people offered up some for me!
Truly, I think people have overcomplicated sourdough so much. Half the time my dough is over fermented and so many people online would tell me not to bake. I do and it comes out great all the time. I do a pretty chill recipe that I will post below and I always bake regardless if all the “tests” would tell me otherwise. Don’t give up. I’ve found that your house temperature has a lot to do with the process.
I keep my starter in the fridge and take it out the day before I want to bake. Sometimes I fed my whole starter which is a large mason jar about 1/4 full or I take out about 40 grams. I don’t do any measuring but I like to feed a mostly flour and just enough water to combine it. I like a thick pancake batter consistency. My house is FREEZING atm (summer in Texas you know that ac is blasting) which has been messing up my bread. I’ve been feeding my starter and leaving it outside overnight and she’s soooo happy at 80ish degrees. I will also set my dough out there (or garage depending on the temp) to proof.
This little guide has helped me so much with my fermentation as well!
I made a dough a while ago that was so insanely sticky I was contemplating my life. I did what felt like 50 stretch and folds the second set which helped a lot.
Recipe: 150 starter 325-350 warm water 500 bread flour 10 salt (added into first set of s&f)
* Mix dough and knead for about 5 min
* set aside for 30-1 hour then do first round of 8 s&f with salt. Add a splash of warm water to the dough to help dissolve the salt.
* complete 3 more rounds of 8 s&f about 30 min apart (if you’re feeling crazy do 2 rounds of s&fs and 2 coil fold rounds.
Bulk fermentation on counter for a few hours or in fridge overnight
Bake at 450 for 20 min then 400 for 25 or until internal temp is between 200-210
https://preview.redd.it/wv4ohsjpyvef1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abe5671fdec914b7ae7c535d0271ae1d5725a0ea
I’d stop messing with feeding ratio, and just pay attention to what your starter is doing. e.g. feed it 1:1:1, and then just see how it behaves. How long does it take before it stops increasing in volume? Make a note.
When it stops increasing in volume (and assuming it’s not super acidic, or the temperature is high enough that your gluten is breaking down), it’s around peak strength, at which point you want to do your discard and feed it again. This is peak to peak feeding, and what you do to build your starter strength.
With a 1:1:1 feeding, at 71F, my starter usually hits peak at around 4-5 hours, and hits around triple initial volume. (I always feed with bread flour, which supports tripling volume) If you can hit that kind of benchmark, you’re fine to keep it in the fridge.
What I do is keep 300g of starter in the fridge, take what I need for my loaves (100 or 200g), discard down to 100g if necessary, and then do a 1:1:1 feeding, and let it ferment together with the bread dough. When it hits around peak, I put it back in the fridge, so it holds at a good strength for next time I want to bake. i.e. it’s basically pre-fed. I don’t notice any degradation if I bake again within a week or two. Any longer, and I have hooch (alcohol sitting on top), and I’ll pour that off and do one or two feeds before baking, depending on how long it was). Taking my starter straight from the fridge, with a recipe that’s similar to yours, I get my dough done with bulk fermentation in a little over 5 hours, at 71F.
If your starter is good, I’d just handle the dough more. When I do stretch and folds, I just keep going until the dough starts lifting out of the container without meaningfully stretching, and then I’ll leave it until it looks pretty flat in the container (i.e. not domed). If I’m doing coil folds, I’ll do one, and then turn it 90 degrees and do another, until lifting it with a finger under the middle on each side fails to fold it in half.
Use qualitative measures of fermentation progress, like percentage rise, and how jiggly it is, rather than going by timing. Try to understand what’s going on, rather than sticking to a timetable.
I’d suggest trying to err on the side of overfermenting (e.g. taking your bulk fermentation to close to double before shaping and retarding your loaf overnight), because a little overfermented is a lot better than basically any amount of underfermented.
no advice as im a novice but im here to say i have also made about 6-7 loaves and only 2 have been edible (as in pliable enough to physically consume. the rest were hardened cement) and i think we are doing okay, go easy on yourself and take a break for a bit if you need.
how long have you been growing the starter? my advice to everyone looking to get baking is just get an already mature starter from a friend/go on facebook buy nothing group. I wasted time trying to build my own, got good results using an older starter
I had similar issues and learned a couple key things that may be helpful!
First, keeping the starter in the fridge is nice to not feed as often but it should be fed/discard/fed at room temp and least once before using in a loaf recipe I found. Personally, I like to keep mine at room temp but keep it small (20ish g) so I don’t get overwhelmed with discard.
Second, feeding 1:1:1 weakens it over time. Since my starter is small, I literally scrape out basically all of it in to my discard jar, then use residue left in the jar as my carryover. I add a spoonful of of my flour mixture (white, rye, and wholewheat mixed together, 7:3:3 ratio), about 10g, then just enough water to make a thick paste. Then the night before I want to make my dough, I make a levain when I go to feed my starter.
Third, spend a lot of time doing gluten development in the beginning. Common ways are autolyse, slap and folds, kneading in a mixer, etc. until you get a mild window pane.
I was having trouble when I measured. Then I kinda gave up, and just did it by eye as a last ditch. I knew the texture i was supposed to achieve. I usually just add a handful or two of flour, honey if it needs a little extra oomph, and a splash of water. If it seems too dry, another splash of water. Sometimes a little rye flour to help wake it up also. Its worked so much better for me than following anyone’s recipe.
I’m feel ya. My very first loaf turned out great, and then the next 6 or 7 were complete busts, and I gave up. I’m tempted to try again.
A few tips:
I personally don’t measure my starter. I just add half into a new jar(save the other half in the fridge for next time), add like 1/3 cup flour and just enough water for a thick pancake batter type consistency.
No need for a stand mixer with sourdough.
Mix starter with warm water and stir until dissolved, add flour mix until just mixed. Wait 30 minutes and start your stretch and folds.
Give yourself some grace. Don’t over complicate.
It took me 7 tries to get my first decent loaf
Try desserts if bread pisses you off. That’s what I did. I got some cookies and banana bread really dialed in, and I always used ripe starter instead of discard. By the time I decided to try bread again my starter was very healthy from being used in desserts almost weekly and truly ready for actual bread. It took me a year to get real bread right, but I had banana bread down in 2 months. And lemon pound cake after that, and then chocolate cookies, and onto other delicious things. It kinda helps that I love desserts tho… I’m far more passionate about them than I am bread
I had a great starter before I went on an overseas holiday for 6 weeks. I’ve been back 8 weeks now and had to start a new starter and it’s just not working for me. It’s winter in Vic so not the best time for starter but I got a seeding mat, still not giving me an optimal rise 😭😭😭
Go get the sourdough whisperer or the Sourdough bible by Elaine Boddy and follow her recipe and instructions to the T. No fancy terms or processes, you’ll be successful everytime. If you already have starter just jump in at the master recipe.
Me too. I think I need to take a break. Plus the pressure of keeping the starter healthy. I’ve been at it for over a year and have success but I need a break;)
Sourdough is roughly a 6-9 step process and each one has to sync with the next.
I, like many, including yourself was getting frustrated until I found [Ben Starr because his video specifically said “lazy” and I was hooked!](https://youtu.be/v2kbDCo8EZY?si=o0ycuPNKhWn3MLo9)
Now, I make awesome sourdough that has no holes, but unlike Ben, I love the tangy sour flavor so I cold ferment for 3 days.
Oh, and for the record: you are putting way too much effort into feeding/discarding when you don’t have to. Watch the video I linked and breathe a sigh of relief). Everyone would go crazy if they had to follow strict sourdough rules and You. Don’t. Have. To. In order to get consistently good loaves.
I have yet to make my perfect loaf of bread after like 100 attempts, even more. Treat baking sourdough as something fun to do, if you enjoy it, it will be fun and just take note of each attempt whichs steps to improve on. If it is tiring and you do not enjoy it, and you only look to bake the perfect loaf of bread without fully understanding every little step in the process then baking sourdough is really tedious
Try Peaceful Cuisine’s recipe! Really. I’ve never even failed once with his recipe (of course there are more delicious or less ones) and no discard at all.
when i first started making sourdough bread, the first 3-4 mths of me making it, i had to dump it. pls dun give up! record what you have made and slowly improve on it.
I’m new to sourdough too and I’m only just starting to develop a bit of dough ‘intuition’ from my last few loaves – I think it was from my 9th loaf.
They’re still not perfect, by any means, but I found the insta account @therealsourdoughmom to be super helpful.
She has a recipe but also provides tips on how to adjust it based on the form of your dough. Also reels to help troubleshoot your dough.
Haha same..
I have stopped measuring after my 3rd failed attempt. I do 150g starter, I use 340g of water and I guesstimate the flour. It’s usually around 450 when I feel like the dough is the prefect stickiness and also add the rest of the 10g of water after the 1 hour resting with the salt. Then after 30 minutes I need the dough for 10 minutes, let it rest for 30 minutes after that I coil it every 30 minutes 4 times. I let it rest for 3 hours at room temperature after that I put it in the fridge over night. And do the rest of the traditional process accordingly. I have gotten the best bread I have ever made.
I don’t think anyone has mentioned this… Temperature plays a big role. Keep your starter in the oven with the light on while it rises. My house gets cold so I keep it in there all night. It’s bubbly and ready to use in the morning. But if it’s too hot, that can also be a problem. If it’s too hot my loafs are always sticky and never shape. . Aim for 75-80 degrees
Also try using Spring Water, not tap. Tap water has small traces of chlorine to kill bacteria. Use spring water and it should greatly improve the quality of your Starter.
Have you tried the same hydration with commercial yeast? If yes and it worked, then the problem is your starter. If no, then you can try that first to see if it is a hydration issue (too much water for the flour to handle) or recipe issue. If you have a young starter, I’d suggest using a recipe that blends starter and commercial yeast to make sure you don’t have issues with the starter being too weak. King Arthur flour has a good recipe for that. Also, see if there is a corresponding YouTube video so that you know how sticky the dough is supposed to be at each stage. I’ve had doughs get better after 2-3 folds.
You are not dumb. You are learning. I relax more than most. This should be fun. So here’s what I do.
My starter is 1:1:1. 50 g each and I use whole wheat every time for my starter. I figure it will help keep a colony strong. I also sniff it every day before feeding to make sure it still smells good. I feed 1x a day in the evening before bed.
When I go to make bread, I will feed at lunch so it is nice and bubbly. In the evening before bed I put in 50g starter, 375 g water. Stir. 200-ish g whole wheat flour, 300-ish bread flour so 500 total. 9-10 g sprinkles on top and mix. I kneed for about a min after it is mixed and cover with a warm wet towel. Then I refers my starter.
When I wake up, I knead again for 4 times. (Once quarter turn, again quarter turn until one full turn) then I place it in whatever I am going to cook it and let it rise until lunch time. Sometimes on a cookie tray (425/40 min covered in oil and Parmesan cheese with parchment paper under it), sometimes in a Dutch oven (450/40 min the last 10-15 uncovered with a round air fryer liner under it. Low stress cleaning)
My loaves are yum! Slap some butter on those puppies and enjoy. Initially, I was cooking them longer than I liked and adjusted the time. I don’t know if my crumb is good. My designs cut in are super basic. It tastes good.
I figured people have been making bread for thousands of years and they probably didn’t have kitchen scales. So I don’t stress. If it rises 5 instead of 4 hours in the am, it should be ok. If I put in 53 g of starter instead of 50. It should be ok. Keep adjusting until you are happy and just be proud of yourself. You are learning and growing. 6 months from now people will be in awe.
I understand that you are frustrated. It seems like you’re wasting time, money and effort. You will get there. I’d look at water as necessary but can be reduced to just hydrated enough to incorporate everything together. If it’s sticky it’s too much water. Try adding a tablespoon of flour if it feels too wet. Starting with less water in the recipe is what turned the corner for me. 500g flour 260-290g water (instead of 350g)
12g salt 100g starter. I use my stand mixer every time now and it helps me see the incorporated consistency. If the dough balls itself together and cleans up the sides of the bowl on its own it’s gonna be good. Lately I’ve been experimenting with a wetter dough and a wonder bread dough from That Sourdough Gal. It seems easier to handle wetter dough now, than when I first started. I’ve been working on it for about 6 months. Good luck.