Made a 4 hour milk bread in a Pullman pan. I looked at different recipes, some with double proves and some with triple proves (initial bulk, ball and proof again, then roll out/shape, proof in pan before bake). I ultimately decided on a double proof like I do with most doughs, in part because of time (was making it before work and was cutting it close with time). My girlfriend loves it but a couple things frustrate me:
Despite its high hydration, I think I’d have more of an open and airier crumb if I used a smaller dough amount. The dough filled the bottom third of the pan, and I let it proof for almost an hour and a half before baking, just enough to basically be kissing the lid, but it still seems dryer and denser than I want. Thinking the gluten may also be underdeveloped? I also baked it for the recommended 45 minutes but I think it might’ve been happier at 40, and maybe be less dry.
Thoughts for better crumb (please advise)
-More gluten development
-Slightly smaller dough ball
-Additional proof? Do the 3 instead of 2?
Thank you breadit
by FramingHips
16 Comments
Did you do tangzhou?
Open crumb is the antithesis of a pullman pan loaf. The lid compresses the dough keeping it from getting big holes. Take the lid off and get a domed loaf instead if that is your goal.
As to dryness and gluten development, post the recipe as that can be at fault. FWIW, I find the normal 2 rise is the way to go… bulk, shape, put in pan and rise.
The picture looks great, but can’t eat a screenshot.
Pretty sure you made this wrong. Milk bread is supposed to be light and airy. Using a lidded pullman pan is how you get the opposite of it. Also, traditionally, the dough is divided into multiple smaller dough balls in the pan to encourage the correct shape
Japanese Milk Bread is different than western milk bread. It is supposed to be tight crumb and a little springy so that part is good. It shouldn’t be dry though so maybe another 2-3% hydration? Also – hard to tell from a photo but I might have let it cook another 4-5 min to get more browning on the crust – but that is just my personal preference. Personally I’ve used Forkish’s recipe from “Evolutions in Bread” and had great results every time.
I don’t think you can achieve a more open, airy crumb since the dough is de-gassed after bulk and rolled out for shaping, which results in a uniform structure…. I’m not sure if im completely right
If you’re going for an Asian style milk bread then this is pretty spot on. You’re not supposed to have an open crumb with this kind of bread, especially if you baked in a Pullman tin. It should be fairly tight and uniform, exactly how you have it here. The browning looks pretty perfect too!
The high hydration in this kind of bread is not to achieve an open crumb, it’s to improve the texture of the bread and assist with it staying softer for longer.
Of course bread is about what you want so if you’re not happy with it, I’d recommend a regular loaf tin or reducing the amount of dough by 1/3 or 1/4 in a Pullman. You’re always going to have some compression in a covered tin though!
Hard to diagnose without a recipe.
But everything looks spot on and the color of the crust is just perfect.
Generally speaking, milk bread has a tight crumb structure. It’s an enriched bread dough, just like a brioche. So, you won’t get air bubble holes like you would in a baguette or sourdough breads. I make [Japanese milk bread](https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/japanese-milk-bread-recipe) regularly and it always comes out with a tight crumb structure. It’s airy and light, but no pockets of air bubbles. And it doesn’t matter if I make buns or loaves like you did.
I think the amount of dough you used is perfect since the loaf came out perfectly square and all the edges are nice and straight.
I’ve noticed a big improvement in texture/dryness by cooking milk bread to 190F instead of the full time some recipes recommend. I think in my most recent batch I baked for about 30 minutes at 350F for a 9″x4″ pullman loaf. The King Arthur blog post below was part of what led me to experiment with that.
[https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/blog/2017/04/07/using-a-thermometer-with-yeast-bread](https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/blog/2017/04/07/using-a-thermometer-with-yeast-bread)
Do you use a tangzhong in your initial mix? If not, give it a try. Might be more what you’re looking for.
That looks perfect
What you have there looks totally correct, and what I would expect. If you are looking for an open crumb you don’t want to be using that pan. Search around for an open pan milk bread instead.
looks good, just doesn’t have sprials, which I don’t think would change the moisture
The crumb is actually a bit too open to me (too many holes
I do my milk bread in open tins to allow more rise. That opens the crumb. I also do the two or three small rolled balls per pan rather than one long log, to allow expansion in multiple directions.
Visually it looks as it should.
What did you enrich the bread with? My usual choice of recipe includes butter, skim milk powder, sugar, and honey. https://www.justonecookbook.com/japanese-milk-bread-shokupan/
I would LOVE to give you my expert, 100% infallible, spot-on-perfect advice. OK? Send me a loaf just like this, FedEx, overnight, and I’ll let you know. DM me…