CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor break down the Cavs’ 120-109 win over an injury-depleted Pacers squad — a familiar postseason foe, even if this rematch lacked its usual punch.
Takeaways:
1. Darius Garland’s Return Reaffirms His Role as the Offensive Engine
The primary takeaway from the game was not a new discovery but a reaffirmation of Darius Garland’s critical importance to the Cavaliers. His presence transforms the offense, making it function at a much higher level. When Garland is healthy and on the court, other key players like Evan Mobley and Donovan Mitchell are more comfortable and effective, as Mitchell can play more off the ball and Mobley doesn’t have to initiate offense from beyond the arc. Garland’s ability to penetrate the lane, collapse defenses, and create scoring opportunities for himself and others is what elevates the team’s ceiling, making him the undisputed “engine” of the offense. His health remains a key storyline, as he was seen discussing a lingering toe injury with the training staff after the game.
2. Jaylon Tyson Provides Essential Energy and Tenacity
Jaylon Tyson has successfully carved out a crucial role by transforming himself into the type of player the Cavaliers need. He brings a distinct “joy,” “energy,” and “ferocity” to the court, which is especially vital in the starting lineup when players like Sam Merrill or Max Strus are out. Tyson contributes by knocking down open 3-pointers, playing tenacious full-court defense, and guarding the opponent’s best perimeter player. While he might be asked to be more of a playmaker in a different system, he has embraced his specific niche on this team. His presence, much like Garland’s, makes the team feel more complete and helps establish a tougher, more energetic identity on the court.
3. De’Andre Hunter Is Quietly Becoming a Versatile Offensive Threat
De’Andre Hunter is becoming more acclimated to the Cavaliers’ system, delivering consistent offensive production, including 20-point performances in five of the last eight games. His impact is growing quietly as he doesn’t need to dominate the ball to be effective. The team is exploring different ways to use his versatility, deploying him in driving situations from the top of the key or the elbow to take advantage of mismatches. This unpredictability makes the Cavaliers’ offense more difficult to defend, as Hunter can capitalize when defenses focus on Garland, Mitchell, and Mobley. His aggressiveness in taking open shots and his ability to collapse a defense add another valuable layer to the team’s attack.
4. Evan Mobley’s Aggressiveness Shines Against Weaker Competition
Evan Mobley had a performance characterized by his aggressiveness and efficiency. He scored 22 points on 7-of-13 shooting and grabbed 12 rebounds by playing with force and staying close to the basket, resulting in several dunks. However, this dominant display must be viewed in context, as it came against an undersized and outmatched Indiana Pacers frontcourt missing its key players. The challenge for Mobley is to replicate this level of confidence and ferocity against better, more physical opponents. The game highlighted that Mobley is most comfortable when teammates like Garland create easier scoring opportunities for him, underscoring that his ability to create his own offense is still a work in progress.
5. Frontcourt Depth and Rotations Remain a Work in Progress
With Jarrett Allen sidelined by a finger injury, the Cavaliers’ frontcourt rotation and depth were under scrutiny. Larry Nance Jr. returned to the rotation but appeared “clunky” and is still searching for his fit, looking uncomfortable on both ends of the floor. The coaching staff seems to be figuring out how to best deploy him, similar to their experiments with De’Andre Hunter’s role last year. The matchup against the Pacers’ smaller lineup favored Nance, but against bigger teams like the upcoming Los Angeles Clippers, the Cavs may need to turn to other options like Thomas Bryant. The situation highlights the fluidity at the back end of the rotation, where Kenny Atkinson has multiple options (Nance, Nae’Qwan Tomlin, Bryant, Dean Wade) to choose from based on matchups and in-game effectiveness.
Listen using the player below:
You can also listen using your preferred podcast app. Subscription information is below.
Subscribe and listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
The video version of the podcast is on YouTube as well.
Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up Cavs Nation! I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. And joining me today, Chris Fedor, cleveland.com Casby reporter and we’re with you guys after the Cavs 120-109 win over the Indiana Pacers. And as we knew, coming into tonight’s contest, yes, it was a quote unquote rematch of the Eastern Conference semifinals, but this Pacers team is extremely different from what it was just a few months ago. No Tyrese Halliburton because of the Achilles tear. And Miles Turner is on the Milwaukee Bucs, as we saw just a couple weeks ago. Chris, obviously this is another win in the win column for the Cleveland Cavaliers. What did you take away from tonight’s contest and did you learn anything tonight?
Chris Fedor: No, I don’t think we learned anything tonight. Come on. The Pacers are 2 and 14. They haven’t won a game away from home. They’re going to be in the lottery this year. I. I don’t think that we learned anything specifically about the Cavs. Um, I think it just reaffirmed our belief that when Darius Garland is healthy, this offense functions in a different kind of way. When Darius Garland is healthy, you know, Evan Mobley is more comfortable. The offense itself is more comfortable. Donovan Mitchell is able to play off the ball a little bit more. So the engine to the Cavs offense is, is Darius. And their ceiling is just very, very different when he plays. And he was very good tonight in terms of getting into the paint, attracting attention, causing the defense to collapse, scoring for himself, creating for others. And when Darius is able to take some of those ball handling responsibilities and those shot creation responsibilities, same thing with Donovan Mitchell. Evan Mobley doesn’t have to start his offense beyond the three point line. He can start it inside the three point line. He can finish around the rim, he can play at the elbow, he could take the guys off the dribble that he was able to take off the dribble for Indiana. So nothing that we learned necessarily. I just think it reaffirmed the importance of Darius, which becomes more apparent when this version of the Cleveland Cavaliers doesn’t have him.
Ethan Sands: Chris, we talked before tonight’s game about just the joy also that Darius Garland brings to the court because of how important that is and how much we’ve seen that over the last couple of years. And even for Darius, it’s important for him to have that level of joy to be successful. Jaylon Tyson is now kind of being thrown in that bucket as well. As Kenny Agatson would say, he’s a player that plays with energy. He’s a player that plays with ferocity. He’s a player that just likes to have fun. And you could see it when he’s talking to the media, like he turns his little switch on to be more professional than usual. But when he’s around his teammates and he’s a happy, go lucky, smiley kind of guy, it alleviates some of the pressure that he might be feeling as a second year player who is now being thrust into the starting lineup. With Sam Merrill and and Max Stru still out for the Cleveland Cavaliers Tonight, he was 6 of 7 from the field, 2 of 3 for the 3 point line, 14 points, 8 rebounds and 3 assists. Not only was the joy a factor when it comes to Darius and Jaylon, but it felt like those two areas where the Cavs needed them most, the defensive intensity and the rebounding and Darius Garland’s playmaking in his offensive production. You kind of saw that firsthand against the Pacers.
Chris Fedor: You did, and I give Jaylon a lot of credit. Kenny Atkinson talked about this following the game, just the way that he has transformed himself, the player that he has turned himself into because he needed to turn himself into that player for this team. In a different situation, Jaylon might be asked to do different things. In a different situation, he might be asked to be more of a playmaker, he might have the ball in his hands more, he might have a higher usage rate. But for this team, they need a certain type of player, they need a certain type of skill set, they need a certain type of guy to fill a specific role. And I give him a lot of credit for being willing to do that and finding his, his niche for this team. He’s knocking down open threes, he’s making the most of the shot attempts that he does get. He’s picking up guys, full court, he’s trying to be sturdy at the point of attack, he’s guarding oftentimes the opponent’s best perimeter player. And you know, when he’s in the starting lineup, there’s just a different energy to this team. There’s just a different tenacity to this team. There’s a different ferocity to this team. And I think it makes sense that Kenny Atkinson continues to go to Jaylon when Sam’s missing or Darius is missing or one of the members of the starting lineup, the every night starting lineup is missing because, you know, Jaylon has shown that he can fit in and he can blend in to that particular lineup. So you know, having him back, you. You felt that as well. Just like Darius. And the Cavs didn’t even have Jarrett Allen tonight. They didn’t even have Sam Merrill tonight against Indy. But they felt more like the Cavs. They felt like a more complete version of who this basketball team is and who this basketball team is supposed to be. And to me, that’s more about Darius than anybody else. But. But Jaylon’s a part of that too, given the way that he has played and the impact that he has made in the first part of this season.
Ethan Sands: And Chris, I mean, yes, it was the Indiana Pacers, and again, as you mentioned, they’re 2 and 14. They’re not a good basketball team without Tyrese Halliburton.
Chris Fedor: I mean, they don’t have Aaron Neesmith. They don’t have Obi Toppin either. They’re playing dudes like Jay Huff and somebody named Jeremiah Robinson Earl or something like that, or Jeremiah Earl Robinson, whatever his name is. I looked out there on the court and I said, who the hell is number 25 with the bright shoes? They’re playing Garrison Matthews, for the love of God, in today’s NBA, who. Who they just, just signed. So it’s not just Tyrese. Tyrese is the engine to that offense. And you know, I talked about this last year, Ethan, he was on the periphery of my MVP ballot and he was on the periphery of my first team, all NBA, because I just think he’s that important to his team. And you’re feeling that, obviously. But it’s not just him. It’s also Aaron Nesmith, who Cavs fans hated throughout the course of the playoffs because of his tenacity, because of his timely three point shooting, because of the way that he was picking up guys, full court. And then Obi Toppin had a really good series against the Cavs too, and he had a really good playoff run coming off the bench for Indy. You take those three guys out of the mix, man, it just becomes really, really difficult for them to consistently compete in some of these games. And credit to the Cavs, when you have a team like this, you’re supposed to go up by 22 at one point, right? You’re supposed to lead for around 41 minutes in the game. The first quarter was very competitive. It was tightly contested. But as the game went on, the Cavs superiority, the Cavs depth, the Cavs high end talent, the Cavs, everything started to show itself. And that’s what they’re supposed to do against these kinds of teams. That’s what they did last year against these kinds of teams.
Ethan Sands: The point that I was going to make was since Tyrese Halliburton is not on the floor, we kind of saw the impact of not having an offensive engine, especially with Darius Garland being out. So that’s the main difference when it comes to what the Pacers have been doing this season and trying to find offense, but they’ve still found different players to have an impact. The Indiana Pacers had three players combined for 79 of their 109 points tonight. Andrew Nemhard, Pascal Siakam and Benedict Matheran. And Chris, I don’t want to harp on their players as much, but how quietly behind the scenes a player can kind of not get the recognition or get caught up in being a side character in a all star German league. And my point to this is De’Andre Hunter continues to have a good season. As we started the year, he’s had 20 points. In tonight’s contest, he was 8 of 16, 3 of 9 from the three point line. So seven rebounds, which as Jimmy would say, that’s a good number for a 6 foot 8 power forward or small forward depending on how the Cavs are using him. But more than not, I think De’Andre Hunter is, especially with Darius Garland coming back and Sam Merrill and Max Drew and all these other players, he’s starting to get acclimated into the system that the Cavs ideally had planned for him when they went and traded for him. And I think that’s what’s important is that he’s kind of doing this quietly. He’s kind of having an impact without needing to have the ball in his hands or feeling like he’s taking every shot and he took 16 shots tonight. I asked the other night when the Cavs lost if he felt like there were shots out there that he left and he said no. But then he looked at the bot score. It was like, well, looking at the hierarchy of the system, maybe I could have taken more. And I think what De’Andre Hunter’s role has been defensively and offensively is starting to come to light and again in part because of having that offensive engine in Darius Garland, but also just knowing that his role is being more solidified. And maybe that’s because he’s in the starting unit. Maybe that’s because he’s getting his touches endurance spots. Maybe it’s because the Cavs understand what he can do functionally at the point of attack, but also when it comes to breaking down defenses when called upon. And that’s kind of what Kenny Atkinson has used him as during rotations, he’s on the floor when Darius or Donovan or Evan aren’t on the floor as well. Because now you see a player that is good in isolation situations or alongside Lonzo Ball, who can find him in his spots in his pockets, where that allows him to be the most successful.
Chris Fedor: 20 points in back to back games, 20 points in five of the last eight games for De’Andre. And I think there’s still more that the Cavs can pull out of him. Ethan. I. I think they have been toying with him in drive situations. Get him the ball either at the top of the key and allow him to take his guy off the dribble. Get him the ball maybe at the elbow, see if he can take his guy off the dribble. So I just think there are different ways that the Cavs can continue to use De’Andre and it’s almost like filling in the gaps. What do they need on that particular night? What do they need against that particular opponent? And his versatility on the offensive end of the floor, the different ways that he can score, the different ways that he can be deployed, it just makes the Cavs more unpredictable. And we hate talking about Last year’s Cavs vs this year’s Cavs because we understand that they’re very, very different. The pieces are different. The way that they’re operating is different. The guys that have been available to them, that’s different, too. But I think one of the things that made the Cavs so difficult for opponents to defend is that they had so many places that they could go offensively and they were so unpredictable. During the J.B. bickerstaff era, what the Cavs were going to do offensively was very straightforward, and everybody in the league knew exactly what was coming. There just wasn’t a lot of variance to the attack. There wasn’t a lot of unpredictability. And I think the Cavs, they benefit greatly from the way that De’Andre can can score and the way that he can be used on the offensive end of the floor because it just makes them more unpredictable. It makes them more difficult to guard. Obviously, if Darius, Donovan and Evan are going to be on the floor at the same time, the eyes of the defense are going to be focused in that general direction. But then, you know, De’Andre benefits greatly from that because think about the kind of defenders that he’s going to be able to go up against. Think about the kind of defenders that he’s going to be able to exploit. Some of the better defenders are going to be on Those other guys. So this just allows him to capitalize on those things. And I like the aggressiveness that he’s playing with. He’s not hesitating when he’s getting open shots. And like I said, I like the fact that he has added an element of drives to this team because the drives are supposed to be ingrained in this offense, and that’s kind of where everything starts. And if. If it’s Darius, that’s fine. If it’s Donovan, that’s fine. But adding another element, another guy who’s capable of driving and collapsing the defense and making plays out of that, that just makes the this team way more formidable. And if Evan is going to continue to be a little bit uncomfortable in those situations, especially in specific matchups when it comes to tacking off the dribble, then they don’t have to use Evan that way. They can switch and say, we’re going to use De’Andre that way instead.
Ethan Sands: Evan, to me tonight, was super aggressive. He was a player that was getting into the body of his defenders. This is one of those matchups where you needed that to happen. And I’m not to say that he hadn’t done that earlier into the season, but maybe he had a little bit more success tonight. Seven of 13 from the field, 22 points. And then also, I know this isn’t fantastic, but 7 of 11 from the free throw line, 63.6%.
Chris Fedor: Chris.
Ethan Sands: It feels like that’s better than it has been in the past, which is disappointing to say, but also understanding that he had 12 rebounds, four on the offensive glass, that portion’s huge. And four assists. And I liked how Darius Garland said it tonight that he has the ability to pass. So if you get in the ball, in the pocket, you force defenders to make decisions whether they’re going to collapse, whether they’re going to spread out. And obviously you mentioned it there, Chris. If Jarrett Allen, if Darius Garland, if DONOVAN Mitchell, if De’Andre Hunter are on the floor with Evan Mobley and allows him to have more options and less, players are willing to spray away from their players because they understand the value that they have and the gravity that they hold on their own.
Chris Fedor: I think the other thing is he was just playing closer to the basket. He had seven made shots. Four or five were dunks. You know, that’s Evan. That’s him playing with force. That’s a level of aggressiveness. Now, here’s the thing. He’s got to show that against better opponents. He’s got to show that against better defenders. Picking on Isaiah Jackson, who doesn’t belong in any starting lineup, that’s one thing, right? This was an advantageous matchup for Evan Mobley, and he exploited it. He exploited it the way that he should. He got near the basket. He played with ferocity. He beat whoever it was off the dribble. Sometimes it was Isaiah Jackson, other times it was J. Huff, like I said, Jairus Walker, Jeremiah Robinson, Earl. That’s very, very different than what Evan was playing against the other night in Houston. Right? So it’s great. Sign is a great step forward for him. He’s just got to continue this and play with this level of confidence even when the competition ramps up. And I do think it’s going to continue to be beneficial for Evan. Like I said, he had seven made shots. I think four or five of them were assisted. When he doesn’t have to create on his own, he looks more comfortable. Now, obviously, the Cavs want him to create on his own. That’s part of the. Hey, we’re going to let him spread his wings. Hey, going to try and unleash him a different kind of way. We’re going to try and get him to evolve his offensive game where he can do those kinds of things. Because if we get into a playoff environment and teams are trying to take Darius out of it and they’re trying to take Donovan out of it, we’re going to need Evan to be that kind of guy. But for now, as it stands here in November, he’s still not as comfortable doing that. It’s still a work in progress. There are still growing pains attached to that. So when he has other guys setting him up the way that he did tonight, getting him easier shots, making it so that he didn’t have to work as hard for his scores or his offense, it just felt different. It just looked different. And he looked way more comfortable in this particular role than what he has been for the majority of the first 17 games, because Darius has only played in four of them.
Ethan Sands: Yeah, Chris. And to that point, I mean, The Cavs had 28 assists on 43 makes tonight, which is huge. And three players having five or more. Donovan Mitchell having five, Darius Garland having seven, Lonzo Ball having five as well. And I want to get into that pairing really quickly because I feel like the geometry of the floor kind of changes when it comes to the offense and the defensive structure. When you have Lonzo Ball and Darius Garland on the floor at the same time for this Cavs team, because you understand that Lonzo has his strengths, right? Getting in transition, creating very Quick offense, barely touching the ball. I haven’t lifted the stats, but maybe has the ball in his hands as minimum as anybody around the league. But Darius Garland then also when you get into that half court, and we’ve talked about this to start the season, them needing a creator in the half court when the system gets bogged down or they’re not able to get these early shot clock opportunities. But Darius Garland being able to break down his defender, get into the paint and then create opportunities from there is extremely important. And having those two alongside each other and being able to learn how each other plays and how each other can benefit from that. And even Darius Garland, who loves to run the floor, getting some open early shot clock opportunities with Lonzo Ball in the lineup is going to help him as well. And I think just the passing acumen, the level of IQ is being risen when both of those guys are on the court. And plus on the defensive end, Lonzo Ball, 6 foot 6, can then guard some small forwards alongside if Kenny Atkinson wants to go with the lineup with Donovan Mitchell in it as well. You now have two very capable scorers and Lonzo Ball as a defender to help switch on these players who are going to get attacked on the other end of the floor.
Chris Fedor: I think there’s something that we have to monitor here, Ethan. Over the next couple of games, Darius looks like he’s still being bothered by the toe and I do think it’s a tricky injury for him to play through and come back from. And I do think there’s a mental component to it, just like there’s a physical component to it. But he was having an extended conversation in the locker room tonight with head trainer Steve Spiro. And as those two guys were talking, you could sense a little bit of annoyance from Darius that he is still kind of being bothered and he kept pointing down at his feet. And then after he had that extended conversation with head trainer Steve Spiro, another member of the Cavs training staff came out to talk to Darius and to look at Darius’s foot. And I don’t know what the Cavs are going to do in terms of Sunday into Monday. It’s a back to back, this is a three and four night stretch. But, but just keep an eye on that injury report when it comes out Saturday to see if Darius is on it because he’s still not as right as I think he would want to be. And that extended conversation with the head trainer in the locker room I thought was very, very telling. And there was a point toward the end of the Game where Darius was kind of laboring and he had to shake something off. And I asked him about it following the game. He said he was okay. And it’s, he said it was just like a stinger or something like that. But I think we always have to monitor just Darius and how he plays through this and how his toe responds to this game or a stretch of games. And I think the Cavs are going to have to continue to monitor that as well. I think they’re going to have to continue to use injury maintenance as well. So that’s something to watch. And then with Darius and Lonzo together, Kenny’s gonna have to ask himself throughout the course of these games, throughout the course of this schedule, just how much does he want to play these guys together? How much can he play these guys together? You know, if he’s gonna have this set rotation with Donovan coming out at the seven minute mark of the first quarter and Lonzo going in, that’s going to be an interesting time, theoretically for Darius and Lonzo to share the court. And that’s a lot of passing, that’s a lot of vision, That’s a very, very interesting combination. And the other thing that, that helps is Alonzo has the size, he has the length. So some of these taller, more physical guards that might be problems for Darius to defend, he doesn’t have to deal with those to the same level. Sharing the floor with, with Lonzo and you could just sense in talking to Darius following the game, Ethan, that he was excited about that potential pairing. He was excited about sharing the floor with Alonzo and the, the kind of IQ that is out there with both those guys together, the kind of playmaking that’s out there with both those guys together, the kind of passing and vision that’s out there with them two together. And for Lonzo, look, I mean, he, he wasn’t great from a stat sheet SP perspective tonight against Indy, he still isn’t making shots. He seems pretty annoyed by it. The other night he finally made a three and he put his hands together in prayer and he looked up to the heavens like, thank you, God, I finally made a corner three. So he tried to do the same thing in tonight’s game against Indiana where he caught the ball and he took a rhythm dribble and that didn’t work. It worked the other night, it didn’t work tonight. But like, the thing about Lonzo is you feel his impact even when he’s missing shots. You feel his impact even if he’s not scoring the ball. So he plays 25 minutes or so tonight against Indy and he just like finds a way to make an impact beyond scoring, beyond making shots. And I think that’s an important element that Lonzo brings. And if Darius is healthy and capable of playing, then they’re not going to need as much scoring from Lonzo, right? If Sam Merrill is healthy, they’re not going to need as much scoring from Lonzo. It would be better for sure if he made these open threes, especially if they’re in the flow of the offense. But if The Cavs have De’Andre scoring, Jaylon scoring, Evan Donovan, Darius, Sam, how do you find another way to impact the game? And the beauty I think of Lonzo and the pickup of Lonzo this off season is that he doesn’t have to score to make an impact on this team.
Ethan Sands: The biggest thing when it comes to the injury updates for this team is that one Sunday to Monday is a back to back. So Kenny Atkinson is going to have to make a decision because Lonzo Ball is still not playing and back to backs will start to see season who he’s going to play Monday and Sunday depending on if Darius Garland is going to be on the injury report. And I think it would be likely. And Kenny Atkinson has already talked early on into the season about how he doesn’t want to play a game where both of those guys are out and we’ve already seen them have to do that at least once this season. And the offensive structure looked very shaken. But also to your point, Chris, about the box score of Lonzo Ball, I don’t necessarily think this is a bad box score for Lonzo Ball. Seven rebounds, which is huge for a guard. Five assists, as I mentioned earlier, one block and a plus 12 on the floor, but he was 0 of 2 from the field. And of course this is my thing, has been my thing with Lonzo Ball to start the season. Maybe there was this feeling because there were so many players out that you had to shoot the basketball. But there have been multiple times this year where obviously you’re an NBA player, obviously you can shoot at a high caliber, obviously you are a confident player and that’s an important portion of shooting the ball. But sometimes I look at some of the shots that Lonzo Ball has taken and I’m like, why? You are not needed as a scorer when it comes to this team. And I think as you mentioned, adding players back in who are known for that and then he gets into the comfortability of the offense and, and what he’s good at and it’s not going to necessarily take away from the frustration from when you make shots, but making an impact in a different way is definitely going to fill his cup in a different way, I should say, because Lonzo’s always been known as a passer and also just understanding where he flows into the offense and taking shots, not necessarily what he’s asked to do or called upon. As you mentioned, Chris, what the Cavs did to make a decision to go get Lonzo ball for Isaac Okoro, it wasn’t because of his shooting and his scoring necessarily, although it was supposedly better, but it’s because of what he can do offensively with the ball in his hands and creating for others and then defensively not being on the same level as Isaac Okoro, but still being a plus defender.
Chris Fedor: Yeah, the other off season acquisition was Larry Nance Jr. And he was back in the rotation tonight. Jarrett Allen missed the game, so that allowed Larry to get some run. But it’s still a little bit shaky when it comes to Nance. There was a stretch there that the Cavs were using him as the five and Indiana had bigger, bulkier Tony Bradley out there. And then Kenny quickly called on Evan Mobley to shift Larry to the four. So I think Kenny is still remember last year where Kenny was still trying to figure things out pertaining to deep De’Andre, start him, come off the bench, play him at the four, play him at the three. Where does he like the ball on the floor? I think Kenny’s still trying to learn those things about Larry and I think Larry is still trying to figure out where does he fit with this team. And it just, it just hasn’t been, to use a Kenny Atkinson phrase, it just has not been smooth sailing. So it’ll be interesting to see just how Kenny uses Larry if he does use Larry when Jarrett returns from this minor. I’m told it’s a minor finger issue that he has. It’s his right hand. It’s his third finger on his right hand. So it’s not the same one that that is fractured. It’s not even the same hand. So it’ll be interesting to see if Jarrett plays Sunday or if he plays Monday. What does that mean for Larry? Or is Larry’s role just going to turn into the guy who becomes more available if Evan is resting a night or if Jarrett can’t play for one reason or another, is he just going to end up being that swing big temporarily while the Cavs continue to work through all of these kinds of things? So I also think the matchup, the matchup against Indiana kind of played into going to Larry, putting him back in the rotation. Indy doesn’t have great size. They aren’t that imposing physically. So I think Kenny felt like he could kind of get away with it a little bit more. Not only did he need Larry because Jarrett wasn’t available, but I think Kenny felt like he could get away with it a little bit more just because, you know, Indiana does tend to play small. There were times where it looked like Siakam was kind of floating between the four and the five. So I think because of the matchup that that played into Larry’s favor and it got him some run, but it was still a little bit clunky with him trying to figure out, okay, where do I go on the floor? He had a corner three that hit the side of the backboard that was wide open, nobody within 10ft of him. So it, it just looks like a guy who is still searching. And I think as much as he is searching, the Cavs are searching for how to best deploy him as well. And I think they’ll get there. I think eventually they’ll get there. But. But right now it’s just, it’s just not great.
Ethan Sands: Chris, obviously to your point about Larry Nance Jr. Jarrett Allen being out does help that, but I also think it’s important to note that Nae’Qwan Tomlin didn’t have his greatest game tonight. And I think when you talk about matchups and I think when you talk about schematics and all these things that Kay Atkinson has to make decisions on, he went away from Nae’Qwan Tomlin after his first stint because of how it wasn’t looking right when it comes to him being on the floor. And obviously some matchups are going to be more beneficial for Nae’Qwan Tomlin and also sometimes we’re going to get reminded that he’s second year into the league and still on a two way contract and still learning the game of basketball in itself. But to your point, Chris, the Cavs play the Los Angeles Clippers on Sunday and they have two imposing bigs when it comes to Nvika Zubac, Brook Lopez coming off the bench, John Collins available. Sure, this Clippers team is 4 and 11, but if Jarrett Allen’s not available, I think it’s going to be very interesting to see how the Cavs deploy their frontcourt and how Evan Mobley plays. These are the types of opponents where we’re curious to see how Evan Mobley is going to react, how aggressive he’s going to be, how close he’s going to be able to get to the basket because you’re not going to be able to back down Zubosz, Brook Lopez or John Collins the same kind of way that you do players tonight who are not as strong, are not as capable or are not as prepared for that kind of level of physicality as some of the Clippers players are. So I do think the front court question will come more so on Sunday than it did tonight, but that’s more so because of matchups and that’s so much more about who this Cavs team is going to be when it comes to depth. Because we’ve seen the Wings play, we’ve seen the guards play, we’ve seen the differential and how they can be deployed and utilized by Kenny Atkinson. But this frontcourt depth still questioned because this is supposed to be the most deep front court bench that the Cavs have had in years.
Chris Fedor: Well, the other thing about Nae’Qwan, the other thing that we have to remember is the more success you have, the more opportunity you get, the more playing time you get, the more the opponent knows about you, and the more the opponent knows about you, the more they can exploit your weaknesses and they can take away things that you want to do that make you successful. So I think more teams are more aware of Nae’Qwan. He was in the starting lineup the other night for goodness sake. So that’s an adjustment that he’s going to have to make. That’s always a challenge for a young player that once the team that you’re playing against starts making adjustments to you, can you then make the proper adjustments? Can you counter those things? So that’s going to be a big part of the growth of Nae’Qwan Tomlin. And maybe Sunday happens to be more of a Thomas Bryant day. Maybe they feel like they need his size, they need his energy, they need his force. I wouldn’t call him bulky necessarily, but he does have more size than Larry does. So if Jarrett can’t play on Sunday and you’re playing against Zubots, who is a former teammate of Larry Nance Jr. One of Larry’s favorite teammates that he’s ever had, and John Collins, bouncy, active, things along those lines, you might need to match that with with Thomas Bryant. And I think that’s the thing that that makes the Cavs, that’s where the depth comes into play. Because as we saw tonight, if, if Nae’Qwan isn’t being effective, then you give Larry more minutes, right? And you hope that Larry is going to give you something more than what he has at the beginning of the season, you hope that Larry is going to give you some kind of production that is similar to what he gave to the Atlanta Hawks last year. But if Larry doesn’t do that, okay, then you go to Thomas Bryant. You know, there is that fluidity that the Cavs have when it comes to the back end of their rotation. As we’ve talked about so many different times on this podcast, the top of the rotation, the first seven, eight spots, are pretty much locked in. They’re very, very consistent. And then it becomes very fluid at the back end. And if it’s not Nae’Qwan, then maybe it’s Larry. If it’s not Nae’Qwan or Larry, then maybe it’s Thomas Bryant. If it’s not Nae’Qwan, Larry or Thomas Bryant, maybe it’s Dean Wade. You know, there’s just options that Kenny Atkinson has, and they’re probably not as. As compelling as we thought they were going to be based on certain things that have happened at the beginning of this season and struggles that some of these guys have had. But at least they’re options that Kenny feels like he can go to based on what the situation calls for and maybe what the opponent is throwing at the Cavs as well.
Ethan Sands: With all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy. Buy subscribers subscribing to subtext. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.comcavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the COWS from me, Chris and Jimmy. This is the Julian Podcast. It’s your podcast and the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.
If you purchase a product or register for an account through a link on our site, we may receive compensation. By using this site, you consent to our User Agreement and agree that your clicks, interactions, and personal information may be collected, recorded, and/or stored by us and social media and other third-party partners in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Dining and Cooking