How to Stop Food Addiction with Dr. Vera Tarman (Ep.112)
We know that humans can become addicted to drugs and alcohol, but can we actually become addicted to food?
Today, we interview Dr. Vera Tarman, the author of “Food Junkies – A Recovery from Food Addiction”
Dr. Tarman, is the medical director of Renascent, an addiction rehab centre in Toronto, and works with people struggling with a variety of substance addictions, including food.
Evidence is mounting for the ways in which the brain responds to hyperpalatable food substances, such as food products that are high in sugar, fat and/or salt. Research is showing that these substances can trigger a brain response and cascade similar to drug addiction. The food industry however, often creates food with the intention of having it be addictive.
We have always counselled people about learning to develop a positive relationship with food, but there may be a case of learning how to avoid certain food products that have these addictive food substances.
Tune in to today’s conversation with Dr. Vera Tarman to hear all about this controversial topic.
Check out Dr. Tarman’s blog on our website: https://sandragentleman.com/food-addiction/
Dr. Vera Tarman, MD, FCFP, ABAM MSc. is the Medical Director of Renascent and a senior staff physician at Salvation Army. Dr Tarman has a special interest in the clinical syndrome of food addiction and has presented at numerous public forums to educate and advocate on this subject.
She is author of Food Junkies: Recovery from Food Addiction, and is a cohost of the popular Food Junkies Podcast.
She is also the founder of the free Facebook group, called “I’m Sweet Enough: Sugar-Free for Life”. https://www.facebook.com/groups/SugarFreeForLife
Please check out her YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@VeraTarmanMD
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Oh hey there come on in we’re just about to Start welcome to my wife The dietitian a fun weekly podcast about nutrition and healthy lifestyle I’m Rob and together with my wife Sandra we invite you to join us on this informative and entertaining Journey Through The Complex world of healthy eating join us each week as we strive to help you with
Transforming your overall health and relationship with food through upto-date evidence-based nutrition information Food addiction it’s a controversial but important topic a growing body of research shows that for some people certain foods can trigger brain responses similar to substance addiction hyper palatable foods that are high in sugar or fat or salt can lead to Compulsive uncontrolled eating episodes today we talked to Dr Vera Tarman author
Of food junkies who works with patients with food and other substance addictions getting a lot of research that’s showing yes there are foods especially with the food industry spending a lot of money with food engineering to get foods to be addictive so that it’s hard to have just
A couple of Reese’s peanut butter chips or what whatever like you want more like anybody who eats that is going to be lured by that because that’s the food industry’s job and they do a great job if you thought that you couldn’t get addicted to food then stick around for this thought-provoking Interview enjoying the show you can help others find it and enjoy it too by giving us a five-star rating or review if you feel like reaching out to us with a question or comment you can send us an email at mywi THD atgmailcom and don’t forget to visit our website at mywi
Theed dietician tocom as well as our social media Pages we’re on Facebook Instagram and YouTube enjoy the Show Welcome to my wife the dietician hello Sandra hi Rob how’s it going good how are you I’m doing well good today we are talking to Dr Vera Tarman who wrote food junkies recovering from food addiction and we’re learning all about the controversial topic of food addiction yeah I didn’t realize there
Was such a thing I mean we’ve heard of drug addiction and alcohol but uh food addiction hey it’s it’s a thing yeah well I guess that certain foods can actually trigger brain responses similar to the substance addictions so hyper palatable foods like foods that are Ultra processed that have lots of added
Sugars or they could have added fats and salt so they could be the Savory types of foods and that can lead people to have a compulsive uncontrolled eating episodes interesting wow I had no idea yeah she’s a medical director of Renaissance and a staff physician at the
Salvation Army and she has a special interest in the clinical syndrome of food addiction and she works with patients with food and other substance addictions well it kind of makes sense I guess it should be an interesting interview I’m curious to hear more about it yeah and I think with her work and
The growing body of evidence they’re trying to get it actually as a diagnosis in the dsms as uh food addiction right that’s like the psychiatric manual or something right yeah yeah so getting it like an official label for it yeah interesting all right well let’s bring out Dr ver
Tarman and find out all about food Addiction well welcome Vera thanks so much for joining us on our show today could you tell the listeners a little bit about who you are and who you help in your work yes and thank you for inviting me I’m always happy to talk about the subject of food addiction
Because people usually just roll their eyes and go come on you can’t be addicted to food so if I can get somebody who’s going to listen seriously I’m always happy so I’m my name is Dr Vera Tarman and I’m an addictions physician and I work out of Toronto uh
Mainly with drugs and alcohol but I’ve been as a sideline just because it’s an area that I’m passionate about um have been talking about uh addiction the same tools the same concept as I do with my uh drugs and alcohol I do with food and uh mainly I do educational like I speak
About it a lot but there actually was a time for three years just prior to covid where we actually had a food addiction program in our Treatment Center so I’ve got a clinical experience as well so that’s kind of my that’s what I do um
And I’ve got my book which I’m sure will mention at some point food junkies recovery from food addiction oh I love that that’s where I yeah I saw your book and I heard you on a podcast and I thought oh this is so interesting because as you said uh it’s not actually
SCI like well that’s a question actually I’m going to ask you um because uh it’s so interesting is there science that indicates people can have a food addiction okay so here’s the thing so there that’s kind of like a three-part answer if you look to the literature the actual research the academic research
What what you’ll find is uh there’s a fair amount of research talking about the addictive qualities of specific Foods mainly sugar I know I know we’ll talk about ingredients in a little bit actually now more and more people are talking about processed food in general so you’ll find stuff that says uh yeah
You know it here’s the reason why um a rat it’s actually a lot of it is animal research a rat will choose sugar over cocaine or sweetener over cocaine so we’re getting more research like that uh so that’s the first piece yes and and the second piece would be that there’s
More research on things like pet scans where you can see that the brain lights up the same as it does with cocaine or alcohol it does with sugar so we’re getting more research like that and now thirdly we’re getting but this is this is early days it’s it’s where we need to
Get more research and where research is now starting which is clinical actual people not pet scans not re in the research laboratory but actually out there uh when they’re eating particular Foods what happens to them like do they actually develop a food addiction syndrome so that we can determine that
One person everybody who eats a bag of potato chips probably struggles to some degree with I’m just going to have a handful and you have half the bag but there’s some people who have to have the whole bag and once they’ve had the whole bag they want the the they didn’t even
Think about what was in their fridge but now they’re looking routing through their fridge going what else can I have and and that might um stir off a binge for the rest of the night those are the people that we’re talking about and that’s the area where we’re now looking
At research and I can give you um the research about how we’re getting there I can give you like statistics that we think like how many there how many food addicts there are in society U but this is all really early days because actually researching people in the life
Experience we need more of that and especially around treatment and that we haven’t got that yet and because of that that um agencies like the dsm5 which is the diagnostic and statistical manual uh Psychiatry the board of Psychiatry that determines what’s a diagnosis and what isn’t they just keep saying show us the
Research and that’s the research we have to get and that we’re trying to accumulate right now oh super interesting hey does this affect like if someone has is considered an addict does that mean they’re always going to be like that with the chips like you were explaining or is that something that
They could be like that sometimes like is it is it black and white no no that’s a very good question it’s actually a Continuum and most of the research that’s that’s kind of like what I was talking about we’re getting a lot of research that showing yes there are
Foods especially with the food industry spending a lot of money with food engineering to get foods to be addictive so that it’s hard to have just a couple of Reese’s peanut butter chips or what whatever you want more like anybody eats that is going to be lured by that
Because that’s the food industry’s job and they do a great job but and and just that like the logo is like bet you can’t eat just one on the lay potato chips right it’s like obviously they’re marketing that was 30 years ago yeah and they’re boasting about it uh so that
Doesn’t mean you’re a food addict it just means that you’re at the whims of the food industry but for some people it’s like some people can have a few drinks and put it away and there’s others where they have a few drinks and then there appears to be if they have
Have too many a few drinks too often that some line gets crossed and and it’s almost like there’s a Continuum where if you have too much too quickly all at once then you end up starting to develop what I would call a food addiction syndrome and that’s like what we would
Say that person is not just a a a um heavy drinker they’re now an alcoholic and that means that now can they go back no because something has changed it’s an actual brain adapt uh that’s occurred and once that’s happened you can’t really go back and
Those are the people that have to be um extra careful and eventually I mean I’m going to I preach about abstinence you have to stop your substance the person who’s a crack addict has to stop they can’t Wate anymore they did initially like nobody signs up to become a crack
Addict nobody signs up to become an alcoholic or a food addict they’re just doing their thing in society you know getting whatever is available at the time but for some Crossing that line happens sooner than others and once they’ cross that line they’re going to have to stop because it’s basically the
Same idea once a person becomes a diabetic they can eventually learn how to be a diabetic in remission but they’re still a diabetic and that’s what we say about addiction as well oh interesting yeah because that’s the whole thing we I’ve always said you know in our craving change classes and you
Know emotional eating um when we’re trying to help people it’s all about like well you know you can quit drugs you can quit alcohol you can quit cigarettes but you can’t quit food but I guess you can you can tailor what types of food but then it becomes this almost
Like an eating disorder right like it’s like you know where’s the line like the binge eating disorder or you know right like there are so many it’s it’s there’s layers of the like the onion the layers of the onion right you know there’s so many layers and those layers uh end up
Causing conflict within the food addiction community and the eating disorder community and it’s too bad because we end up fighting with each other rather than with the food industry which has created the problem in the first place uh by making foods that are so delectable and you know first of all
How do you define the difference between somebody who has an eating disorder and a food addiction is there a difference is it a Continuum are they two distinct things we don’t know actually but um and so yes if a person is a food addict they do run the risk uh you start restricting
Food uh like you know make your food your enemy essentially uh that causes an eating disorder like we have to be very delicate and careful with this because it’s it’s so confusing it’s like you said it’s peeling the the layers of the onion I actually think that it’s
Probably a really good idea to have a coach or a a dietitian now you are a dietitian not a nutrition a dietician yes and and the fact that you’re open to food addiction is valuable beyond beyond speaking because we need to be speaking with each other and together so because
You can recognize okay is this an eating disorder or is this a compulsive eating because of a particular food so let’s talk can we talk about the ingredients that that we usually yes please because that’s I see it all the time in our clients I mean it’s it’s such a shift
When they start eating more whole minimally processed foods and eating like you know three meals a day and two snacks but like Whole Foods like they’re cooking and they’re actually it changes it really changes their taste buds improve like so they actually can taste the natur food and and they’re not you
Know their blood sugar becomes under better control and they lose that little belly fat and like it’s just incredible how Mother Nature has always provided the perfect Matrix of food and like structure and vitamins and minerals and all the macronutrients and the fiber and the water in the food ex yeah deliver to
Our system you know in a way that won’t make us sick it won’t give us heartburn it won’t give us indigestion it won’t give give us valel problems won’t give us arthritis like all these chronic inflammatory conditions that I see in my practice is like I can see that food can
Have such a big impact in how people are experiencing their health so yes let’s talk about the ingredients yeah and so I mean you you’ve already mentioned all the ingredients that are great to eat and and so let’s say you’re a dietitian and I’m an addictions physician and both
Of us agree that eating real foods unrefined carbohydrates is excellent is fine um and I think that I my guess is that you’re going to say eating a sugary uh refined product is not fine um I’m I’m going to guess that so like the concept of emotional eating and
Intuitive eating and all that kind of stuff those are great tools if you’re not eating addictive foods and if you’re not so far into the the addictions Continuum um like what I would call an endstage food addict any food can become addictive even healthy food foods but
Those are rare people those are rare animals most of us are in the middle somewhere and if we can avoid so what are the foods that we want to avoid or that we can call I’m going to say not avoiding Foods these are our trigger foods foods that will trigger The
Addictive impulse that’s almost always sugar and I’m not talking about the sugar in fruits and in vegetables like carrots and beets I’m talking about added sugar refined sugar industrialized sugar stuff that doesn’t need to be there because what’s happening there is if we ate real food all of us like sweet
Because it’s energy dense and it’s potent it’s full of energy our brain loves that stuff and it was our first uh first taste with her mother’s breast milk like it’s yeah absolutely and we like it and it’s okay if we could just have breast milk all our life we
Wouldn’t have any problems but that’s not possible so so so anyway um but but what what’s happened is is that the food industry has taken this natural predisposition to wanting sweet and fat um especially together which is breast milk and has heightened it beyond what the brain is capable of doing and it
Overpowers the brain circuitry and the Brain therefore the neurons the neuro it’s called neuro adaptation it adapts to that onslaught of extra uh uh sugar and and so then when that adaptation happens this definition of addiction happens so it’s almost always sugar and then next is refined carbohydrates
Because that’s basically almost sugar um then uh now there’s most most people in the addiction world will say That’s the basis of it um now we’re talking more and more you’ve probably seen the book ultrapress people with Chris folin yeah he’s saying look it’s not just the sugar
And the fats it’s actually the processing of the foods themselves so it can be processed anything processed oil it can be processed probably meat like proteins U any just the processing itself um has a because it’s a f focus on texture um the focus on smell on on
The refined of it how quickly it goes to the brain you can make anything addictive just by the virtue of a processed food and we in the field are so in agreement with that that we’re probably going to say let’s not call this uh food addiction let’s just call
This processed food addiction yes so that when people say you can’t stop eating food you say you’re right but you can’t stop eating processed food right and and it’s like then the whole line is blurred about like what is processed food because yogurt can be processed but
You know but it is it’s the food that in the bag that you know it’s um well Ultra you don’t even know where it came from like you don’t even know like what did this thing start as like what but it was manufactured it was like actually chemically produced by the food industry
With like high FR fructose corn syrup and different um elements that it’s like not even recognizable and it stays in on the Shelf like it doesn’t rot so that’s the other thing like this food that’s not rotting like it needs to rot because that means it’s real food yeah anyways
Okay we don’t call it food we call it a food product yeah food product that’s the other thing exactly I know Rob’s got a million questions what uh do you have anything I have a question that might fit right now I I was curious where emotions fit into this like like take
For example you hear all the time you know like my boyfriend broke up with me and I ate a whole bucket of ice cream is that an emotional Trigger or is the ice cream like you’re craving the sugar in the ice cream like how does that
Scenario kind of fit into this well okay so when boyfriend leaves you you you don’t have a big plate of Brussels sprouts right it’s always no unless no you’ve had a boyfriend leave you maybe sometimes people will have go out and have something sort of overeat on something
But they’re not likely to binge on it in the same way as they would the ice cream or you finish the the whole tub so they’re reaching for a refined probably sugary fatty product again high energy dense and because it is soothing like it’s it’s again it’s part of that whole
Thing about how we eat we’re supposed to get a positive effect so there is an actual um positive effect I mean if you look at the neurochemistry it’s you get especially with ice cream oh my God you get all the neurochemicals you could want you get the dopamine from the sugar
Which is the excitement the pleasure like oh man that’s so exciting I really love this stuff can’t wait until I try another you know let’s try the latest type and then you get the um serotonin which is that sort of uh soothing you know serotonin is safety soothing
Comfort you get that and then ice cream it it’s it’s it’s milk it’s protein it gives you endorphin so it’s like having a bottle of wine as well like you get a slight that slight Buzz which is a kind of numbing feeling you know how if you
Have a tub of ice cream you’re not dancing around you’re kind of glazed out that’s the Endorphin effect and what does endorphins do in our body uh in our brain it it is a pain reliever it’s a numbing agent so that I don’t feel pain oh so after the boyfriend leaves you eat
Ice cream and then it numbs the it it numbs it but then you feel guilty like that’s the whole thing with people with eating well issues with binge eating or just that they can’t stop eating something is that whole guilt and shame and feeling like oh repent like what did
I just do and then you’re kind of like hurting yourself you know you’re you’re getting hurt but then you’re hurting yourself more and you’re describing there the symptoms of addiction because the alcoholic I mean basically that tub of ice cream that you’re having is basically your another person’s bottle
Of wine and when that person’s finished their bottle of wine they’re glazed out they’re they’re dozed out they they know the problem but they don’t care anymore but they feel the guilt the next morning and the shame and the why did I do this these are all the features of addiction
So there’s a there’s an emotion that causes the trigger like the trigger would be okay I want to eat the ice cream and then the ice cream causes a chemical reaction in the brain yes is that kind of how it works and then and then you just want more okay yes that’s
Exactly how it works and that’s how it works with everybody however for the person who does that all the time uh like that they use food as their main coping mechanism that there’s where the progression of food addiction as opposed to addictive Foods addicting you once in
A while the person that does this now all the time it becomes their Mainstay and then they become dependent on it and then that’s this engine of addiction where now it’s become your life you need it just to feel normal that’s the development of addiction uh because of
Constant exposure of a High um amount of of whatever it is that you’re eating now you you get to point where you can’t survive without it and that’s what we call food addiction like the end result we did that smoking sensation classes in one of our local um groups here and uh
You know when people are um addicted to smoking cigarettes they they get their dopamine levels change so they need the cigarette just to get to a normal like a level that most people would call normal and I wonder if that’s s similar like you get uh used to a a different level
When you’re addicted to certain foods like you need that just to get feeling just like Baseline absolutely and way you might tell if you have a listener who’s going gez I wonder if that’s me or not here’s a question that I would ask you or whoever is listening is when you
Are in distress and you’re eating are you still enjoying it or are you just eating it because you don’t want to be in the moment in other words you’re trying to avoid something because that’s the difference between the addictive eating versus food addiction the person eats to get the Comfort they get the
Comfort and then they you know they feel embarrassed and that’s the end of it but the food addict they they they’re that’s how they got into it but now now it’s like I I have to keep eating this I don’t even like this and I can tell you
That that crack addict or the food addict whoever it is that’s they’re looking at the repercussions I can’t pay my rent or I’ve got diabetes and I’m obese whatever it is they’re not going gez I want to have more of this is this is delicious they’re they’re they’re in
Such a a state that they can’t stand the moment and they need that substance if for no other reason then maybe the next bite the next smoke the next drink will make it go away the next gamble I’ll win like it’s it’s always the hope that the
Next because I can’t stand this moment and if you’re at that place now you’ve crossed that line that I was talking about earlier you’re not enjoying it you’re doing it because you can’t stand where you are oh my good and were you saying that say you um like would food
And alcohol and and drugs all Impact your brain the same way and give you the same kind of results yes okay yes it does the difference is is that um some substances take longer and they’re more under the radar like for example cigarettes are are you can there’s no
Question that they’re damaging and they cause lung cancer heart disease etc etc but it takes 10 20 years um you can you can get a a very quick End by taking too much opiate and then you’ve had a fenol overdose and you’re dead so right we we
We have we have some addictions that are more quickly deadly food is one on the on the it’s more on the Spectrum along with cigarettes it takes a while it is just as deadly we have more people dying of obesity than fenol overdoses but it takes longer and because it takes longer
We don’t see it we call it something else we call it obesity we call it diabetes we call it you know societal whatever we should be calling it um uh food addiction or or process food addiction right wow wow and in your in your book The Food junkies which is such
A great name I like that um you describe all of this and in the in the end like is there any kind of like actionable tips that people that are struggling with food addiction like what can they do yeah okay so the fact that
You um as a nutrition I mean you’re in a fabulous position because it sounds like you’re sympathetic because you’re talking to me and you’re open and you’re asking me questions um what what is really important is that a person um first of all be introduced to a a diet
That is appropriate because we don’t want people restricting I mean like not eating like I’m just not going to eat or or I’m not going to eat these things like you want to you want to still get your essential things that you need but you can take out the stuff like you
Don’t as you were listing earlier when you were listing all those things Whole Foods you didn’t mention any highly processed foods in there so find somebody like yourself um who will give a good food plan that is solid and food addiction friendly which means get rid of the processed foods that’s number one
Then number two and again you’re doing this already with your people give support because once you acknowledge that this is an addiction nobody wants to be like I said the crack addict out there the heroin addict they’re all going I hate this life um I and but how
They can’t get out of it anymore you can’t do it yourself so the other thing would say actionable step is find a um a good diet plan and somebody that will walk you through it like a coach or a nutritionist or something secondly get support to quit and you have to quit the
Ultra processed foods the triggers particularly which are probably candy and chips and all that kind of stuff that’s going to be very hard so you need support you need somebody basically to hold your hand or lock you up so you can’t sneak out in the middle of the night something because that’s what
People do I did I did hear there was the top five that are most adct or like foods that have the most um like chocolate number one ice cream two french fries pizza and then um cookies yeah exactly yeah so stop all of those and and acknowledge it’s not going to be
Easy get help uh get a support group I’ve got my uh my sugar-free um uh I’m sweing us a Facebook group like you have it sounds like you have a community of people that you speak to you want to get support that’s number two you got to do
That and then number three don’t like don’t go out there in the world this is kind of hard too um expecting that people are going to go oh wow good for you you quit sugar they’re going to they’re going to be putting it in your face hey you lost weight have some of
This because you’ve lost weight now you can have some you have to develop a a protectiveness just like the alcoholic is not going to go into a bar because they know it’s going to be tempting to develop some sort of an external um protection for yourself acknowledging I guess maybe the main
Thing is that you have an an issue and if you don’t have an issue by the way and you can get away with having a little bit once in a while then keep it to the once in a while because you don’t want to cross that line but if you’ve
Crossed the line then you’re going to do those things that I said right hope those are actionable enough I’m guessing you’d probably want to find foods to replace the ones that are your triggers or well I don’t know do you need to though because once you stop okay maybe here’s another here’s I
Do want to end on this message of Hope at some point and that is that if you quit people are going to be going oh my God how can I quit the chips and the muffins and the whatevers if you quit that stuff with support and eat I’m not
Talking about being hungry I’m talking about eating healthy foods in two to three weeks a couple of things will happen one your taste buds will come back for good healthy food you don’t need a substitute for chips why would I have that when I can I love my brussels
Sprouts like I don’t need anything if I can taste those brussels sprouts which I’m telling you the truth I love them they’re one of my favorite vegetables um uh I I don’t need when I’m eating those I’m in heaven I don’t need anything else I enjoy them like I enjoyed cheesecake
Many years ago uh so you don’t need a substitute you’re going to go back to what what you’re you are natur nature meant you to eat which is real healthy foods and then the second thing is uh that will change in two to three weeks is that your craving for those crazy
Foods will start to go down just like the smoker once they quit smoking um I don’t know it takes about I don’t know three months or something you know somebody smoking a cigarette it’s like get out of my face I hate that stuff I couldn’t stand it like you’re GNA have
The opposite effect you won’t need it you won’t crave it if you stop it it but you have to get over those three weeks it’s that transition period yeah transition yeah have a bit of withdrawal yeah you have withdrawal and you just you just kind of deal with it and push
Through is that what you’re what you’re saying that’s right that’s right and you can’t you can’t just think if you’re an ex I don’t know if you’re an ex smoker or not but you can’t smoke a little bit of a puff from somebody’s cigarette or have a cigarette and don’t call it
Smoking because it’s not you didn’t buy it you know the things that people say that stuff keeps the um craving alive you have to literally stop it and and uh I assure you you won’t need to replace it because your like I said your your taste buds for the good foods will come
Back I’m just thinking replacing like in the transition it’s I mean you got to have a lot of discipline and I’m guessing that people who are struggling with this there’s the emotional element that might be extra difficult for them to let’s Okay in the addiction world we
Call that harm reduction so then you can use sweeteners instead um use use Stevia use smk fruit instead and um I know that one of the questions you maybe you’re going to ask said at the very end like you know if you go to a potlock what
Kind of dessert could I bring one thing that I I I bring which I think is delicious and people love it is strawberries with a little bit of balsamic vinegar like oh my God that’s so good oh really balsamic vinegar yeah that that’s actually that’s actually an
Italian delicacy dessert when I was in Venice I saw that on there as a dessert option yeah strawberries with balsamic vinegar no sugar because the sweetness of the balsamic is enough but it’s not not enough to trigger a craving right and the strawberries are sweet so yeah
That sounds really neat yeah we’ll have to try that try it try it so yeah and and if you need something that’s a little more typical U then uh you know make something but with sweetener instead makes sense just for that transition until you’ve sort of weaned
Off of it hey yeah okay yeah and that transition can last a couple of years I know myself I I um it took me like three or four years until I I quit sugar many years ago and then sweetener actually I go on sweeteners every once in a while
And then I go off them so it’s it’s um the thing about sweetener is besides the fact that they’re not totally healthy either um is that they still promote the preference for sweet exactly I do not like sweeteners yeah and and you know then I wouldn’t enjoy the strawberry
Because I just had some sweetener but if I don’t have the the sweetener um but if you need something in between you can use that and don’t feel guilty if you need it for more than a year or two right you’ll get off eventually yeah wow
Yeah I know It’s Tricky and I mean we live in a society where every place you stop there there’s so much food available all the time and mostly it’s not whole minimally processed foods like if you’re going through a gas station or a convenience store or you know we have
These yeah it’s just I don’t I feel bad for people who live yeah yeah where they can’t access fresh like that’s why I love supporting like CSA kind of produce boxes where communities supported agriculture and so that you get like all these um these good foods that you have
To be creative in the kitchen with and it’s it’s just a way to support local and get more Whole Foods like it’s more sustainable too for the local environment and it’s just um yeah there’s so much goodness around like eating foods that are you know around your local area it’s like a better
Carbon footprint like you’re reducing that whole travel you know the food has to travel and all that but also just you know the I think um the ultr processed people that book I just I think that’s such a clever name because it’s so true you are what you eat and more and more
Of our food is so unrecognizable I mean I loved when Jamie Oliver went into the grade four class and held up a tomato and said can any does anyone know what this is and one child could recognize it and he said do you know French fries and
Ketchup and they’re like oh we love ketchup we put ketchup on everything well ketchup’s made from tomatoes and it’s just that connection like where does our food come from and you know I think we’re getting more and more away from that with all these industrialized food like the food industry is creating
Food products and we just have to it’s the the marketing is so strong they have so many um so many dollars to you know food food scientist to make sure that it’s got the Bliss point so that people will buy it and then they’re not putting
On the shelves the ones that the food scientists and the tasters didn’t like they’re only putting the ones that they liked so it’s it’s actually increasing people’s like their Bliss point they they want more of you know and then those other products don’t last so they
Get off the shelf and so they just keep raising the bar and it’s affecting our taste buds and we need like you said you need two to three weeks to get your taste buds used to the natural flavors of foods and spices and herbs and those
Kind of things and and and the goal there would be um to to if you’re not yet a food addict you don’t want to become one and if I can just throw out some statistics here really quickly that um when we talk about food addiction how
Many people in society are I think we’re now estimating it’s about 15 maybe tops 20% which is about the same as alcohol it’s around the same uh thing but we know that it’s higher in the obese population it’s probably 50% of the obese and what’s happening we’re getting
A gradually an obese population like two-thirds of society is now at least overweight if not obese so those numbers it’s going to be more than 15 or 20% it’s actually going to be higher and higher so if you’re I’m I’m saying that that if you’re eating this stuff event
Eventually it’s just a question of when will you develop into that poor person that at the end has that’s all that their life is about versus just if you are going to eat sweets and you can get away with it and you can put it away
Keep it to minimal so that it doesn’t expand into or and if you can just avoid it completely that would be the best yes you don’t want to because I and I think what is happening in our society is just our sedentary lifestyle our alra like we’re so stressed because of technology
And social media and answering emails at midnight and we’re not getting our sleep so all these things it makes us like our coping mechanism is to reach for the sugar food to numb the the stress and to help with our anxiety and that’s what I see is people just need other ways for
Self-care other ways to like take a break and have a little meditation session or just have a nap or just don’t reach for the food like have a glass of water and go for a walk or have something you know yogurt and fruit but have something that’s like real food and
Not just a Twinkie or something that’s you know um yeah I see that in my in just talking with people all the time and it’s such a struggle like I think in the last 10 years our stress level has just so increased and I think this is
All related like it’s all connected and you know I work in uh long-term care with people with dementia and over the last two decades I’ve seen like this this dementia uh epidemic like it’s just increasing like so quickly and you know it has to be related to our lifestyle
Food what we’re eating and our our stress level and it’s so there’s just it’s such a multi-level like layered onion like it’s such a huge puzzle and uh you know just I keep saying if we get back to Nature and get back to how our grandparents were I mean they had different stresses
In their life but they didn’t have technology where you can answer things at midnight and you know be worried about the phone calls and the emails and you know all and what’s the friends doing and it’s just like there’s just so much that’s put upon humans these days
That it’s we’re under this chronic stress and we have to find ways to cope and people do use alcohol they use drugs and they use food so you know and I see it all the time is people are using food to help numb those emotions or to just
Try to distract themselves right on agree always like oh there’s your rant here she goes again yeah no it’s it’s honest it’s honest and uh and legitimate Sandra you you you come from a the real world so it’s you’re speaking the truth yeah yeah it’s well that’s the thing
Right like uh I like that Vera Dr T Taran here she works in clinics she sees people she’s written a book so and she’s looked at the research like she’s done all of that so that’s why I really wanted to talk to you because it’s different when you talk to maybe a
Scientist or someone who’s in the lab but they don’t have the real like human um experience with people in a clinic like the repeatable like day after day after day you see the same thing and I see it too and it’s like you know people
Ask is it hormones is it like and a lot of it is just like not moving enough we eat way more than we think we do I think people do their food history and you know and then it’s just just it’s amazing I think people so underestimate
What they’re eating just dayto day with the snacks and the meals and everything and yeah it’s it’s so interesting and it’s complicated and everybody’s different but at the same time there is like an epidemic like you said and I I really think that the way our food like
The way we’re eating and what we’re eating is is definitely um contributing to this price we’re paying with our health can you tell us about your book Vera um yes sure okay so I’ve got my my book food junkies recovery from food addiction it’s it’s a it’s a primer on
Food addiction I like to call it a primer it’s written for the public and also for clinicians who are in the field to understand you know what is food addiction what’s the biology behind it what’s the science behind it and what are the signs and symptoms and then to
Some degree the treatment but when I wrote that book when it the the most it’s the second edition of 2019 the treatment that was available now wasn’t available then so I wrote what was up to that point in terms of treatment but it’s a really good starting point and
Then I also have a podcast that’s called f junkies and that’s kind of the living version it’s like that’s where we talk to various researchers and clinicians uh about like what’s in the field uh yeah and so the two together I think is a really good way to understand food
Addiction sounds awesome yeah and and then by the way um I have a Facebook group if anybody is interested in a free um support people will get go on there who have been there for years not in the group for years because it’s only been a
Few years old but um have been food sober for years and then people who are just starting today saying what do I do um you know they help each other and that’s called um I’m sweet enough sugar-free for life and I I like anybody to join that oh yeah yeah you’re so
Generous to write a blog article it’s on a website so people can access that article that Dr ver tman has written and it’s kind of a synopsis of her book but it’s uh yes um yeah the book is linked at the bottom of that article and it’s
Called food addiction is it a real thing or is it a thing yeah just wondering if you had a website as well um I have a website but I I I admit I don’t use it that much it’s called Addictions on plugged.in learning more I have a
YouTube channel now and I’m posting more more and more sort of little mini lectures like 15 minute 10 minute things on uh you know why do I keep relapsing you know what’s the difference between this and an eating disorder like that kind of stuff so and they’re like many
Manyi lectures so that’s just under ver tarm and MD Perfect YouTube oh good good please join subscribe and like yeah exactly exactly right right there you go oh this has been wonderful wow oh my gosh what a passionate to conversation we’ve been having yeah oh geez yeah Rob
Do you have any other questions uh no other questions but uh yeah I just wanted to thank you for joining us it’s been really fascinating like the work you do is is I find it really interesting I’ve got a psychology background and I find any kind of discussion we have with people about
Human behavior when it comes to well anything with human behavior but this time it’s with food but it’s really fascinating this the the way the human brain works and and uh yeah really enjoyed talking to you so thanks for thanks for coming out and thank you for
Asking me I’m very pleased to speak about this yes you can I can tell you’re passionate about this topic and I really appreciate that and and we really appreciate the time that you’ve taken away from you know the clinic that you are fully you know Monday to Friday I
Think I think you’re very busy in your work work so um this was really great to have you come and and spread your message and get the word out about um this problem that we’re facing in society thank you so much for joining us today ver and um yeah we look forward to
When we come out on a road trip we will uh look you up in Toronto and uh okay would love to have some of your strawberries and and balsamic vinegar yeah okay thank you thank you all right thank you wow Vera is passionate a yeah she’s definitely got a lot of experience
In this field and it’s it’s really interesting I can see the there’s a real fine line between food addiction and like an eating disorder Bing like she did a really good job of explaining the difference but yeah I I think there’s that’s part of the part of the problem
With helping in this in this area is is just that there is a lot of confusion around the two yeah and there’s different camps out there in terms of what uh you know intuitive eating and eating disorders binge eating uh you know like tracking your food those types
Of behaviors versus just lifestyle with overeating High hyper palatable foods like high in sugar and like the ultr processed foods if that’s a big part of the diet then we know moving towards more eating like whole minimally processed foods can be really helpful mhm we didn’t even touch on the the sort
Of backlash that the food industry would have if if everything was labeled as an addiction you know like that’s a whole other topic but that is an element too that I’m sure is contributing to the the whole picture here yeah it’s very controversial it’s still in its early
Phases as she said like it’s not even in the DSM as a disorder yeah so there’s a lot more information she’s got a pretty um thorough YouTube page with a lot of information a lot of videos on there too for people who want to investigate this
A little bit further you can check that out we’ll put the links in the show notes yeah and also her book food junkies recovering from food addiction is one to look up and uh get more information on yeah exactly so we’ll put all the links uh she gave us a few
Different spots to to find her so we’ll put all those links in the show notes so you can follow up on that yeah good all right well that was a really eye openening and interesting conversation yeah we learn something new every week here it’s amazing and hopefully everyone
Else tuning in is is uh appreciating this information as well you can check our website out as well there should be um actually uh Dr Tarman wrote A Blog article that’s uh currently on the website already so you can check that out there’s a bit more information on
What we discussed here today uh our website is my wifethe dietician docomomo we’re on there quite often so there’s lots of different things on there you can you can look at you can also comment and reach out to us through those platforms as well and don’t forget
To rate and review the show that’s always helpful we appreciate hearing your feedback we like the comments it helps other people find the show and and uh helps them understand what it’s all about so if you’re interested in doing that that would be much appreciated yeah
And the article that Dr Taran wrote is on the blog as Rob said it’s called food addiction and it’s dated January 4th 2024 and the subtitle or like the contents include food addiction yes it is a real thing what happens in the brain bra Key signs and symptoms the
Importance of abstinence most important recovery tip and seeking help ask for support and then there’s more information about Dr Vera Tarman in there at the bottom yeah that’s that’s worth a look and there’s lots of other articles on the site too there’s there’s lots of uh good resources there so stick
Around check those out that is it for this week we will be back Wednesday with nutrition nuggets so until then have a great week everyone thanks Rob thanks for joining us today on my wife The dietitian if you like what you heard don’t be shy leave us a comment or review and be sure to share our podcast with your friends if you’d like to hear more hit that subscribe button you can
Also follow us on our social media Pages for updates episode trailers and other odds and ends for more info and links on what we discussed on today’s episode check the show notes we’ll be back next week with another informative and fun-filled Episode