Ok, I need help brainstorming where I’m going wrong. I’ve made dozens of loaves, and they’ve all been decent, taste good, and the texture inside isn’t bad. But I’d really love to make an exceptional loaf, and I’m not sure what’s holding me back. The shape after baking is disappointing (the most recent loaf is one of my worst in a while). I’d love to have it be rounder and taller. I’ve had two or three “great loaves”, but I don’t know what I did differently, or how to replicate it. My last great loaf was my birthday loaf in January, but it’s all been downhill from there. I thought I had it all figured out! I was so cocky about it. I’ve been chasing that high ever since. Why am I getting worse?!
Current process:
500g King Arthur bread flour (12.7% protein)
360 g water
I used my stand mixer for the initial mixing steps because, lazy.
Autolyse for an hour, then add:
100g stiff starter (like 85-90% hydration?)
11g salt
Then I let the mixer work it with the dough hook for a few minutes, trying to build up the strength early.
Rest 20 minutes, then do 2-3 stretch and folds every 20 minutes, then 3 coil folds every 30 minutes. I bulk ferment at 72° until it’s risen 50-75%. Shape, into the banneton, and into the fridge for overnight.
Preheat oven/DO to 475, pop ice cube into the bottom, then little trivet rack (holds the loaf slightly up to keep the bottom from over baking and getting so thick.) Lower the loaf in with my silicone bread sling, and bake, covered for 20 minutes. Remove lid and bake at 425° for another 20. Finish with it directly on the rack for the last 5 minutes.
Here’s what working with the dough is like: it’s very stretchy and extensible, and easy to work with, but it seems to go slack again after resting between folds. I’ve thought I wasn’t building enough gluten, hence adding the mixer in for the heavy lifting, and 6 folds. But it never gets to that domed, unrelaxed, doesn’t need to be folded again stage. I’d like to proof longer, but it just seems so slack and puddly. When shaping, it gets pretty perky, but if I bench rest it, it will flatten out pretty quickly. After turning it out of the banneton, within a minute, it’s sort of puddled outward into this flabby, sad whoopie cushion. I score my boule in an X pattern, about 1/4” deep. I get some spring, but the cross section isn’t oval/round, it’s more tapered/pyramidal.
I’ve experimented with lots of variables, lower hydration(335g water), higher, less folding, more, no mixer, adding oil, liquid starter, stiff, proofing longer, proofing shorter. I feed my starter 8am, and 8pm. It’s always doubled or tripled in that time. I’ve got all the various gadgets and props. At this point, I feel like I’ve complicated it, and wish I could scrap everything I know so I could start fresh. What do they say the definition of madness is? Trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results? I’m signed up for a sourdough class at my favorite local bakery next week, and it can’t come soon enough.
I’m not sure what to try next? Adding a little vital wheat gluten? Is the 12.7% KA flour too weak? Getting a different starter? (I get to bring one home from my bakery after the class!) Am I overworking it and tearing the gluten with the mixer and all the folds? Any ideas are welcome.
by LibraryObjective2328
4 Comments
Okay I fight some of the same problems. I think giving your mixer a shot at it for mixing is smart and efficient. Your dough SHOULD relaxed between folds and during bench rest; I assume it’s not so slack it’s running out of your hand, right?
It would be hard to overwork your dough by hand. However, you can be too rough with it, which can tear down the gluten net at the very time your starter is maxing fermentation, not good.
So you might want to try this:
1. Autolyse just flour and water for 1.5 hours to build gluten fibers.
2. I also do a laminate after mixing, but not sure it does much for gluten build outside of everything else. Just sort of like doing it, the ultimate soft hands test.
3. Be very soft with your stretch and folds, maybe not even all four sides the elasticity is pulling back on you.
4. You could also replace S&Fs with coil folds which are gentler. Regardless, increase your gentleness as you proceed through stretching.
5. I find that doing an envelope fold or two if the dough is slack just prior to pre-shaping and final shaping helps add strength for bench rest.
Just some ideas.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Sourdough/s/eIpvP3OB1s try this recipe. I’ve baked it today and it was the easiest dough to work with so far.
When shaping I’ve stretched it like if I make (a very thick) pizza and ten folded it and rolled it. Then I tighten it further on the bench by the classical pushing technique. In my opinion shaping makes the biggest difference, unless your dough is (a lot) overfermented or underfermented.
Also the size of loaves and the shape of your banetton makes a big difference. Smaller loaf and narrower banetton make taller bread. You can see in the linked post that my bread is a bit less tall, because my banetton is very wide and flat. Still the bread is round and the bottom edges are lifted up, which to me is a sign that I shaped well, because the bread wants to inflate like a balloon.
I unfortunately don’t have any specific advice to your current recipe, I have no experience baking without rye (also my starter is pure rye). Your steps seem correct though.
How old is your starter? What do your feeds look like? Starters can get acidic, and prevent the loaves from rising or getting good oven spring.
Thats pretttty high hydration. I get great results at 75-78 percent. Id start there.
Also, when you pre shape, make sure you are getting a nice tight ball. It will go slack as it rises in the fridge, then on the way into the oven Ill take and “burrito roll” lightly again and do one last tuck. I get HUGE oven spring because of it.