This take just really rubbed me up the wrong way, seems really gatekeepy and inconsistent – anyone in the industry able to maybe express this take differently so it makes more sense?
Branding themselves as an enthusiast shop and then saying that anyone who is an enthusiast is prentenious?
by samdd1990
24 Comments
F this guy
yeah, stupid take. I shouldn’t take my wine seriously because the guy that sold it to me takes it seriously? What the hell? How do I know this guy didn’t get hired a week ago from the Costco? How do I know he likes the same things as me?
More importantly, you have to take it seriously to appreciate it at all! “Just buy and drink don’t think” isn’t an enjoyable experience for anyone. There’s a lot more to enjoying wine that your caveman perception of taste. And if I don’t take things like region, winemaker, winemaking philosophy, year, etc seriously, then how will I connect the dots on the wines I like? Should I just “trust” the bottle you’re handing me? Would I know that I absolutely LOVE the wines of Medoc from 1990, and work hard to seek them out? no! I’d probably just be drinking beaujolais and natural wine if I grabbed whatever was on trend at the wine shop.
ugh, this guy is the worst kind of “wine authority”
I understand and essentially agree with the first paragraph.
I don’t understand the part about customers “mimicking” behavior, nor the part about “2010 Cabernet Sauvignon” which is so vague it’s basically useless if it’s supposed to be making some kind of point?
Why someone could become a wine pro when working on this branch but not as a customer? Is that what he’s impliying here?
I think the generous interpretation of this comment is that he’s (and it has to be a guy, right?) trying to describe the small but not unknown population of people who go to a few wine events and start acting like they know far more than they actually do. Everyone who works in wine has met their fair share of such blowhards.
Unfortunately for this guy, I suspect he’s more like the kind of person he’s trying to deride than he would care to think.
There are different types of tastings. Professionals taste tiny sips of 20 wines in 1 sitting and try to access everything while spitting the wine out.
I may attend a special 4 course dinner with a different wine meant to pair with each course.
The 2nd is fun and the first is not, at least for me.
Snobby wine shop sounds about right.
I guess this clerk doesn’t like to be challenged by customers who may have their own preferences, opinions and assumptions. A good wine shop guides and educates with attention, confidence, humility and knowledge.
Collectors who like to collect the wines they like would do serious research and take in the opinions of merchants as well. One has to decipher who are the merchants who mean what they say, and continue to work with those merchants.
We live in an era of widespread information and access to ‘free’ expertise.
If people are spending a decent amount on a wine then it’s perfectly normal in the consumer journey to make sure you’re fully confident in that purchase. Some of that will come from your own research, some from the shop; it’s not binary.
To think anyone is going to take your word for an expensive purchase of any sort is misguided.
Yeah, it all comes down to what they meant by “mimicking”.
If a professional wine shop owner is their own buyer and curates their selection with care to weed out the mediocre offerings and some random person who only drinks Caymus comes in to criticize the shop for not offering dozens of fruit bombs then I agree. They have their own taste they’re entitled to but they’re not exactly discerning.
My local shop owner actually keeps those wines in the back to keep them happy as she doesn’t want them on her shelf but says that the people who want them generally ask by name anyway.
But if someone who doesn’t work in wine professionally but is knowledgeable about fine wines comes in and is taking their notes on a flight for their own personal enjoyment and doesn’t care for some of the wines; it doesn’t mean they’re mimicking a professional or wrong.
Just a classic redditor who cannot even envision a world where other people’s opinions matter. Probably passed WSET1 or 2 and thinks that makes them Larry Stone.
1st paragraph: No notes.
2nd paragraph: Eh, sure, maybe for many, but can you be more self-important?
3rd paragraph: Lol gfy dude
4th paragraph: His palate is probably shit anyway
As if we’ve never bought bad/mid wine in a wine store..
“Jeeze guys stop checking my homework! I promise i know what i am doing!😅” 🤣
It’s a really dumb take. Sure, it’s my job to make things easier for a customer who isn’t super into wine and just knows what he likes and wants something for the weekend. But whenever an enthusiast comes in, it’s far more fun to discuss things, learn about stuff I haven’t been able to drink yet, and so on
This person is right. They may be annoying, but they’re right. There are predictable replicable behaviors that consumers demonstrate to prove how much they know, and it’s usually trying to mimic the pros. It’s not gatekeeping, it’s watching consumers strut around like peacocks. It’s play acting. The best and most knowledgeable consumers walk into a shop like that with a million good questions. If you are a consumer and you’re acting like you belong, you’re missing the point. Wine is infinitely complicated, trying to help consumers navigate it, when they act like they’ve been there and done that betrays the effort put into cultivating a well considered selection, particularly when they’re just going to buy __________ Napa Cab 2010. If you buy the wine, enjoy it, don’t overthink it, but acknowledge if you have the language to discuss that wine and calibrate what YOU like to discuss with the merchant.
Bad take: this is basically a permission form for people to talk down to other people.
There’s a teeny grain of accuracy in this comment, which is that a lot of people think they have to act like they know about wine to avoid embarrassment, and don’t ask questions or otherwise admit ignorance as a result. With wine, after a certain level of confidence, people seem to relax a bit and know what they know but don’t mind asking for pointers about what they don’t know. But a lot of people who know very little act like authorities about all things wine and I can see how that can be annoying if you are just trying to help them find a bottle they’ll enjoy.
That’s the most charitable way I can interpret this person’s frustration, but it hasn’t been communicated especially well.
I read a book called “The Anatomy of the Wine Trade” from the 1980s i believe, and the sentiment was that wine tasting is one of the bonding experiences between buyers and growers, very casual and social and enjoyable. There’s no reason that can’t continue from wine sellers to consumers as well. Consumers can also visit vineyards, and understanding taste allows them to connect to the wine and the grower too, just like a wine trader.
I began my career in a high-end wine shop and some of this message resonates, though some of it comes off a little clunky.
We would taste literally hundreds of wines each month and share grades before taking a position on new items. We would get to know the preferences of many clients, a lot of whom would seek us out individually as we had similar palates. The more you taste, the more you taste.
Anyway, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Being a little charitable…
As a former wine pro, sometimes I’d hang with people, like my former in laws, and enjoy a bottle of wine, and they’d go through thus whole tasting rigamarole that was really performative and try to pick out flavors and go around and everyone talked about what they tasted. And that’s all fine, except it was mostly just because they thought that’s what you were supposed to do with wine, and they were stressed about it, and not just enjoying the wine, or enjoying the pairing or enjoying the moment that it helped create. And I could see that really dragging on someone if they get a bunch of people who just think that’s how they’re supposed to act, rather than just buying something they like.
Yeah nah. What an ironically pretentious prick. If I find enjoyment discussing the enjoyable texture, juicy acidity, fruit profile or long finish of a wine because I find that to be a fascinating and compelling aspect of wine that makes it fun and interesting and worthwhile, then I will. I’m paying for my wine and I’ll enjoy it however I fucking well want.
I agree with some of the points the poster makes- the benefits of people being highly specialized in areas can increase the quality but to call hobbyism ridiculous is stupid. I am glad to live in a world with expert bakers so that I can enjoy the spoils of exceptional bread and pastries but I can also make a (passable) loaf at home if I feel like.
Often people have different levels of how into wine they want to get, despite wanting a (sometimes very specific) tasty beverage. A job like mine (retail/wine bar that is heavily based on neighborhood regulars) is about knowing and understanding your customers, meeting them where they are at and how to marry them to the exact thing they want. Sometimes people will respond to me talking about geography, soil, grapes, vintages or whatever with “how do you know all this information” and like….if I didn’t you would probably just be buying wine at the liquor store down the street. You come to the boutique for the type of knowledge that is accrued there.
What is ridiculous is the consumers that come in and condescendingly explain the wines I put on the shelf to me as if I don’t do this for a fucking living. This is a much more common for women in this industry than it is for me but blowhards are blowhards.
Wine is an immense, never ending journey of learning and if you think you know a lot that truly only shows how little you know.
Snob